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I play Craftworlds primarily and Drop Pods provide unique board control and offensive power from turn one. With the size of deployment zones, if the Marine player goes first, that drop pod can deposit units with the ability to target a multitude of units. I also cannot use Forewarning to shoot at the Marines, just the Drop Pod. Additionally the Drop Pod can land directly on top of an objective, adding an additional complication. For 70 points, it adds very unique capabilities. Eradicators can not perform this at all as they won't arrive via Strategic Reserve until turn 2 and I easily zone out areas I want to deny.

I can't speak for why they are not showing up in more tournament lists, but the Marine codex has two times the unit options as other armies, and there is a lot of solid units to choose from. In the local games and tourneys I've attended in the past 6 months, I tend to see more and more pure Primaris armies with a smattering of specialty legacy units, such as Sanguinary Guard.

I run into a similar issue with my Dark Angels army. I run out of points and can't quite fit a Devastator unit and Drop Pod into my army. However, there may come a time I take 2 x 5 Devastaor Squads with Multi Meltas in a Drop Pod as opposed to my Attack Bikes. We shall see.

Tycho wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

Tycho wrote:

I haven't played 9th but I can't imagine that they aren't useful. Guaranteed Alpha Strike is good. At the very least they'd be good at protecting Grav Devs until you want to deploy them.

I think the problem is, while you're not wrong, other units in the marine book now do that better for less, but also do other things besides.

So I'm curious, what are the other units that can do what a Drop Pod can?

Considering the amount of units Marines now have that can forward deploy, the fact that the board is now tiny but ranges on weapons have stayed the same .... quite a few.

I mean fine. Fair enough. There’s not literally a way to drop a unit out of the sky. It doesn’t change the fact that they have been, pretty much rendered obsolete.

Remember the days people were arguing that the new "minimum" table size wouldn't become the actual table size? Those were good days.

Fair enough at having more options to do similar tasks offensively. I still see value in their defensive "null deploy" capability. . . During 8th I relied heavily on Devastators to deliver damage, and so protecting and positioning them was very important. But like I said I haven't played 9th so I'm not sure how my army formula changes.

I confess I have 10 devastators lying around so I just put an army together with them as its core and a drop pod to deliver them.

Dunno if it will be any good though, but it seems a solid b+ combination.

My main issue with drop pods aren't the points - 70 points to ignore reserve restrictions and have T1 deepstrike for units that normally can't get it is actually a good deal (if one that has to be leveraged)

My main issue is that they provide safe zones for your enemy to hide in. Even choppy marine lists have a modicum of shooting, and drop pods give the enemy an anchor point to both mitigate that shooting and reposition themselves.
A mediocre player will almost always be able to leverage your own drop pod against you.

So to that end I'd introduce the following:

1: A unit that is engaged with drop-pods (and no other units) may be chosen as a target for a shooting attack as normal (barring any other rules that make the unit an illegible target such as Look Out Sir!)
2: When a unit that is engaged with drop pods (and no other units) moves out of engagement range they do not count as falling back, and may shoot/cast/charge as normal. The unit may not advance when it does so.

Basically the idea is to kludge a fix together that makes drop-pods not a liability to your list when you take them.
An alternative is to just make them terrain, and count them as an obstacle with -1 to hit through and light cover. Might be a much better fix given the current rules of the game anyways.

 Canadian 5th wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Huh? Lots of competitive lists use them. They just don't fit into every army since they're geared to kill rather than capture.

I'm seeing a bunch of lists from last year that used a single pod for a unit of Devastators, but I'm not seeing many lists played post-Codex release anywhere. Where are you getting your info from?

#1 at Hobart
https://www.40kstats.com/hobartgt

It isn't as popular as it might have been, but that's more because there's a lot of good choices depending on how you want the list to work.

Poor loyalists. So many great units that one that offers an ability only available to them and CSM (through fw) still isn't good enough. At least your drop pods didn't have their deployment rules screwed up so that their passengers can't get out on the turn they arrive from deep strike. *grumble grumble *

 Daedalus81 wrote:
#1 at Hobart
https://www.40kstats.com/hobartgt

It isn't as popular as it might have been, but that's more because there's a lot of good choices depending on how you want the list to work.

40k stats should probably fix the dates they have for events. I saw that but took one look at the date and didn't look into the lists.

I guess pods are better than I gave them credit for. It's a narrow use as they're being used exclusively as a way to get a single group of Devastators - or equivalent - access to a priority target but that's still useful and powerful.

The pod became less useful with the decreased board size for sure. However, it still holds some advantages in application.
Protection of a dev sqd if enemy has decent indirect weapons, and delivery is more flexible than rhino etc. It might be a tad overpriced, maybe 10-15pts too much.
Being a shield for enemy units is something you simply plan for, and if you're a decent player, you don't let that happen.
I think 55pts would be about right IMHO.

Ah, more unintended consequences caused by new table size recommendations! Our group will still play on 6x4 so pods will still have relevance.

FWIW I always considered the new table size recommendations game-breaking.

 Canadian 5th wrote:
it all adds up to a unit that would be excellent for other armies but that doesn't actually help the army that has it all that much.

Exactly! Church'em up and give'em to Sisters.

I'll take'm with rules and costs as is, and I promise... They'll be special enough for me.

PenitentJake wrote:
Exactly! Church'em up and give'em to Sisters.

I'll take'm with rules and costs as is, and I promise... They'll be special enough for me.

Repentia charging T1 out of a pod would be disgusting.

 Xenomancers wrote:

They are straight 70 points of offense out of your army atm. They aren't taken.

{shrugs} They're taken all the time in my SW army. They've been a staple & defining unit of my SW force ever since I discovered the Armorcast models for them sometime during 2nd ed. EVERY unit in this force that can mounted in a pod is mounted in a pod. HQ guys, Grey Hunters, Blood Claws, Devs, Dreadnoughts.... Regardless of the pts of the moment or how good/bad this is rules wise.
Dependent upon edition I've used the AC rulers for them, the 3rd ed rules where you didn't actually need a model, the FW rules, the 4th ed+ rules, & the FW rules for dreadnought pods.
My favorite rules for them were the FW rules btw.

The current 70 pts? Is just 70pts of flexibility & (most importantly) theme in my army. The only reason I'd consider some of it wasted is when GW F***s with the game to appease the sobbing of the tourney players & forces me to deploy x amount of stuff on the board turn 1.
That's not how I envision my force. My force is intended to represent the actual landing of the assault force, from the 1st to the last pod (+ the jump squads & a pair of speeders). Not "1/2 the stuff arrived before we started rolling dice, & then the rest showed up".

As for wether anyone else in the world uses them & for whatever reasons? Not at all important to me as my SW being a drop pod mounted force makes ME happy. And that's all that's required. Now if only GW would get out of my way with their crappy current DS rules....

 Xenomancers wrote:
Lots of units that are strong can deep strike for free on turn 2 (turn 2 might be a better turn anyways)- like inceptors or eradicators can hit any target they want for 1 CP out of reserve.

This is true. But none of those Primaris units are present in my SW army & never will be.
Well, unless GW someday squats the old marines & primaris are the only option. On that day all my old models simply become Primaris clad in retro armor. Hopefully by then there'll be a Primaris Drop Pod.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Turn 1 mobility is not worth basically having 1 less unit in your army.

But theme is. At least it is to me.
And you're wrong, these ARE units. Ask my friend who plays Thousand Sons. Many are the times that he's gone to smite a target & discovered that the closest unit is actually one of my pods. And they do have weapons. Weapons wich I will use.
It's also not just about mobility, but flexibility. I've put pods in the enemies backfield, on objectives, formed a line/wall with them to block movement. Sometimes to effect where the other guy can DS.....

 Xenomancers wrote:
They are also a unit that your opponent can just assault to become invulnerable to shooting.

That's fine, go ahead & beat on my pods. That just means that you're not beating on my marines - who will take care of you momentarily.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Xenomancers wrote:
I'd rather the unit not exist is the issue.

You're right, that is an issue.
So you don't like drop pods? So what? The solution to your problem is simple - just don't use them.

But noooo.... Because you don't like or use the things you want to remove them as an option for me.

ccs wrote:
Not at all important to me as my SW being a drop pod mounted force makes ME happy. And that's all that's required. Now if only GW would get out of my way with their crappy current DS rules....

Balance? Feth it. Consistent rules writing? Feth it. What really matters is making ccs able to play his Space Wolves the way HE wants...

Aw I loved the old "sliced grapefruit" Drop Pod design. Super retro. Maybe someday when I get a 3D printer. . .

 Canadian 5th wrote:

ccs wrote:
Not at all important to me as my SW being a drop pod mounted force makes ME happy. And that's all that's required. Now if only GW would get out of my way with their crappy current DS rules....

Balance? Feth it. Consistent rules writing? Feth it. What really matters is making ccs able to play his Space Wolves the way HE wants...

Ah, good. We're on the same page & in agreement.

As for balance & consistent rules writing? Only new players would ever expect such things from GW. The best you'll ever get is a fun game. The worst? Well, I'm told 7th was quite terrible....

 Xenomancers wrote:
It seems they are still overcosted.

What can we do to make these iconic units see play? I think dropping their points to say 45-50 would probably be the sweet spot for points. Or otherwise we need to grant them additional abilities.

I can think of a lot of cool tactical abilities they could grant but I want opinions from others. What are some ideas?

Drop pods are bad unit design in the 9th edition paradigm. Probably better they aren't good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Canadian 5th wrote:

PenitentJake wrote:
Exactly! Church'em up and give'em to Sisters.

I'll take'm with rules and costs as is, and I promise... They'll be special enough for me.

Repentia charging T1 out of a pod would be disgusting.

Giving sisters drop pods and miracle dice would not end well for anyone. Especially sisters players who really like miracle dice and want to keep them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 tauist wrote:
Ah, more unintended consequences caused by new table size recommendations! Our group will still play on 6x4 so pods will still have relevance.

FWIW I always considered the new table size recommendations game-breaking.

Pods didn't have relevance on 6x4 either. They're just slightly worse on 60x44. In practice it just makes it easier to avoid being 'gotcha'd' because you didn't string 40 fire warriors along your arse.

ERJAK wrote:
Giving sisters drop pods and miracle dice would not end well for anyone. Especially sisters players who really like miracle dice and want to keep them.

Having a 67% chance to make a charge - assuming you have a 6 for your miracle dice - sounds perfectly fair and balanced to me.

And Marines can make a pod charge 58% of the time. Just need a Chaplain and some CP (if the chaplain deepstrikes in the pod) or a 3+ roll and some mobility.

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Allow primaris to use them.

Honestly with the impulsor I'm not sure if that's totally necessary unless you deploy width ways. Like we know gravis won't be able to get it them.

That being said I wouldn't be mad if Primaris got a new one. I've improved my painting a lot since I got my 2 drop pods and they look awful and it would be a good excuse.

And I'm sure that now that I have 2 impulsors GW will release a new transport that I would have bought instead

 fraser1191 wrote:

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Allow primaris to use them.

Honestly with the impulsor I'm not sure if that's totally necessary unless you deploy width ways. Like we know gravis won't be able to get it them.

That being said I wouldn't be mad if Primaris got a new one. I've improved my painting a lot since I got my 2 drop pods and they look awful and it would be a good excuse.

And I'm sure that now that I have 2 impulsors GW will release a new transport that I would have bought instead

I was really surprised the bunker thing wasn't basically a primaris drop pod...

 Argive wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Allow primaris to use them.

Honestly with the impulsor I'm not sure if that's totally necessary unless you deploy width ways. Like we know gravis won't be able to get it them.

That being said I wouldn't be mad if Primaris got a new one. I've improved my painting a lot since I got my 2 drop pods and they look awful and it would be a good excuse.

And I'm sure that now that I have 2 impulsors GW will release a new transport that I would have bought instead

I was really surprised the bunker thing wasn't basically a primaris drop pod...

Should have been.

Even if it was just a 6 man pod, 6 mark 10, 3 gravis. It'd be perfect.

I could see them changing the rules on it in the future when they realize it hasn't sold particularly well (that's an assumption and not backed up by any data..I bought one, but it was heavily discounted and use it more as terrain than an actual unit).

I'd say they are still useful but probably a touch over costed. Drop some points and they'd be good. Up their fire power perhaps and they'd also be good without points drops. As is unless you have a point for them and an army that has synergy with their type of use, you would be forgiven for feeling they are bad.

I feel like that has less to do with their use right now and more to do with the fact they used to be a good pick, editions back, regardless of why you took them. Now, they need to have a list set up around their use with properly picked units and tactics. Often time a unit, use or tactic is considered weak unless it just is amazing regardless of of how it's used.

Similar to how in the day and probably still today people say " Made its points back " when a unit can do that without killing anyone at all.

I'd say they just need to be cheaper, other than that they may make a come back if DS and reserves ever go back to a more traditional use as opposed to the " Everyone does it Swag ! " of today.


Edit: Someone mentioned they have great theme, and I agree. I loved playing pod assault from back in the early days of 3rd ed when you didn't need pods but basically coming down in pods just meant your army could only be certain units. Infantry, Dreads and Land speeders and it all deep struck, half at once and the rest when the game pressed on. I loved it. The feeling was great and it wasn't always good, but boy did it feel good and have such great theme for how I always see Marines to operate.

Sad these days its just about min maxing and cookie cutter model lists.

 AngryAngel80 wrote:

Sad these days its just about min maxing and cookie cutter model lists.

Sorry nobody wants to play garbage "I'll take one of each unit with random wargear on everyone" games. Maybe you should be blaming the game designers instead of the players!

 JNAProductions wrote:
And Marines can make a pod charge 58% of the time. Just need a Chaplain and some CP (if the chaplain deepstrikes in the pod) or a 3+ roll and some mobility.

Having something be able to do stuff on its own and another being to able to do kind of a the same, but worse, with support from external sources is not the same though.

If I can buff my termintors inv save with a psychic power, it does not make the the same as blade guard having a stormshields on each model in every unit in the entire army for fewer points.

I'd love to be able to use drop pod assault more often with my army, just to stay closer to their fluff, as drop pod delivery is like 99% of their combat deployment.

But the Bug drop pods are not even able to land in turn 1.

I do think its REALLY weird that primaris can't use drop pods. Or at least have their own version. Its kind of an iconic part of the army and how it works. As for pods now? I think they could use a bit of a point discount, maybe sit in the 50 point range. Then again I think all transports should get a discount. This edition charges too much for transport capacity when you can deep strike or outflank for CP. This does not jive well at all with things like Rhinos and Devilfish that do not have any substantial offensive capabilities. I feel like the only time we ever see transports is when they are also well armed and can hold their own after dropping off their contents.

 generalchaos34 wrote:
I do think its REALLY weird that primaris can't use drop pods. Or at least have their own version. Its kind of an iconic part of the army and how it works. As for pods now? I think they could use a bit of a point discount, maybe sit in the 50 point range. Then again I think all transports should get a discount. This edition charges too much for transport capacity when you can deep strike or outflank for CP. This does not jive well at all with things like Rhinos and Devilfish that do not have any substantial offensive capabilities. I feel like the only time we ever see transports is when they are also well armed and can hold their own after dropping off their contents.

At least Rhinos and Devilfish can charge units, which is potentially a turn of a unit not shooting due to that or even just LoS blocking. When Marines have a bunch of other movement options...do I really want to pay at minimum 7 points a model to Deep Strike? That's what the Drop Pod is, basically. I don't think it's terribly worth that compare to regular transports or Strats regarding movement.

Kitane wrote:
I'd love to be able to use drop pod assault more often with my army, just to stay closer to their fluff, as drop pod delivery is like 99% of their combat deployment.

But the Bug drop pods are not even able to land in turn 1.

Honestly forgot tyranids had them. Forgot about the marine ones too till this thread.

Guess whoever wrote the 8th edition codex had a chip on their shoulder. Maybe the 9th edition codex will treat it better

 tauist wrote:
Ah, more unintended consequences caused by new table size recommendations! Our group will still play on 6x4 so pods will still have relevance.

FWIW I always considered the new table size recommendations game-breaking.

Our group played on the "new" sizes for quote a while before going back to the old 6x4. Honestly, the larger table fixes so much about this edition that I'm shocked the smaller sizes made it to publication.

Remember the days people were arguing that the new "minimum" table size wouldn't become the actual table size? Those were good days.

Fair enough at having more options to do similar tasks offensively. I still see value in their defensive "null deploy" capability. . . During 8th I relied heavily on Devastators to deliver damage, and so protecting and positioning them was very important. But like I said I haven't played 9th so I'm not sure how my army formula changes.

Those were the good ol' days! Far as your null-deploy strategy in 9th? Could be pretty good of you get the first turn, but it could really burn you pretty badly if you don't .... If I were going to use them now, it would be for something like a 1-off deal where I HAVE to make sure a unit can be at a specific point at a specific time, and I have no other way to get them there. I think the days of mass drop-pods are probably over for the time being.