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Made in gb
Nurgle Predator Driver with an Infestation




But...they really would become just Marines with spikes rather than their own army if they were given all the same options. I don't agree with the "because of lore" reason, lore can be bent to allow almost anything in this setting but I do think it is a valid game design reason.
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






 ArcaneHorror wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
Why would a DG lord trade a plague reaper or man reaper for an inferior weapon like the thunder hammer?


I'm talking about regular Chaos lords, not Lords of Contagion.


All of them are Lords of the Death Guard.

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Made in gb
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Dai wrote:
But...they really would become just Marines with spikes rather than their own army if they were given all the same options. I don't agree with the "because of lore" reason, lore can be bent to allow almost anything in this setting but I do think it is a valid game design reason.

Giving CSM Thunder Hammers is no more a step into making them "Spikey Loyalists" than giving them Bolters. It's a fairly common weapon for Astartes to use both in the Legions and Chapters. The recent Havoc kit was a misstep IMO, perfect opportunity to give CSM a proper Chaos weapon rather than just a big rotor cannon. The Demon Engines and their weapons from the 6th ed release were roughly what I was hoping for regarding new weapons for 8th CSM i.e. the Ectoplasma cannon/Baleflamers.
   
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 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Karol wrote:
From what I understand the lore about thunder hammers was that they were made after the heresy, and that chaos csm used inferior power maces, because that is the gear they were left with. I could understand if there was a csm subfaction, which could take imperial stuff with some limitations or points hikes to represent how hard those weapon are to get.

Instead of someone deciding, that after multiple editions the csm had had them all along since day 1. It just sounds stupid.

Also makes the removal of gear from other factions kind of a strange.

Except, as has been explained previously, Thunder Hammers are legal weapons for all of the Legions in HH. They're not a post Heresy design.


This is a bit of a retcon tbh - originally THs were only dreadnaught sized and not man portable during the Heresy (and the 2nd Ed Chaos Dread had a TH as an alternative component to its power scourge).

IIRC even post Heresy for LSM they were originally terminators only.

In 3rd Ed Daemonhunters then got the Daemonhammer which even humans could tote around, then in 4th Ed (IIRC) PA marines started getting regular THs.

By the time the HH series came out they were established enough that everyone started getting them there as well, which rather removes the original reason CSM didn’t have them in the first place.
   
Made in gb
Nurgle Predator Driver with an Infestation




 Gert wrote:
Dai wrote:
But...they really would become just Marines with spikes rather than their own army if they were given all the same options. I don't agree with the "because of lore" reason, lore can be bent to allow almost anything in this setting but I do think it is a valid game design reason.

Giving CSM Thunder Hammers is no more a step into making them "Spikey Loyalists" than giving them Bolters. It's a fairly common weapon for Astartes to use both in the Legions and Chapters. The recent Havoc kit was a misstep IMO, perfect opportunity to give CSM a proper Chaos weapon rather than just a big rotor cannon. The Demon Engines and their weapons from the 6th ed release were roughly what I was hoping for regarding new weapons for 8th CSM i.e. the Ectoplasma cannon/Baleflamers.
Good points!
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Except, as has been explained previously, Thunder Hammers are legal weapons for all of the Legions in HH. They're not a post Heresy design.
That's a relatively new thing. Originally thunderhammers from the heresy era were dreadnought only weapons (and chaos dreadnoughts still have them as an option), but then forgeworld decided that they wanted to release a squad with thunderhammers and so the game was retconned.
Who knows, if the HH range hadn't slowed we might have had legion razorbacks and auxilia hellhounds by now.
   
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The only Legion units with Thunder Hammers base are Firedrakes, it's an option for most HQs and some unit leaders such as Veterans. The background wasn't "retconned" because FW wanted to sell Thunder Hammers. The only unit in CSM that can take a Hammer is a Chaos Lord, which is likely to be a former Veteran or Legion Commander with access to such weaponry. Heresy giving Thunder Hammers to some units is hardly recent considering the book that did it is almost a decade old.
   
Made in us
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine





 Jidmah wrote:
 ArcaneHorror wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
Why would a DG lord trade a plague reaper or man reaper for an inferior weapon like the thunder hammer?


I'm talking about regular Chaos lords, not Lords of Contagion.


All of them are Lords of the Death Guard.


Yes, but the LoC is different from just a plain Death Guard Chaos lord, just like they are both different from the Lord of Virulence. The Death Guard have different types of lords for different purposes, like the unseen Lord of Entropy.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






 Jidmah wrote:
Why would a DG lord trade a plague reaper or man reaper for an inferior weapon like the thunder hammer?

Because he's forgotten how to pick up a Manreaper.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut







Keep in mind that thunder hammers got retcon'd.

Back in the good old days of 3rd and 4th edition, thunder hammers and storm shields were loyalist only equipment for whatever made up reasons (mostly so that Chaos didn't end up being just Space Marines Plus...) And GW doesn't seem to care for that middle spot, since I think it's only been a codex option once over all these years.
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch






 Irbis wrote:
Adding thunder hammers to CSM by some inept writer who didn't know the lore was comically stupid to begin with (outside of rare relics like BSF prototype) and should be deleted anyway now. CSM always were differentiated from SM by having their unique stuff and old gear only, new weapons like storm bolters and THs were domain of SM. CSM are their own army, not SM +1 and their options should reflect lore, not ape SM.


Sounds like you are an inept reader who didn't know the lore

There is zero lore reasons why CSM would not have thunderhammers, powerfists, lightning claws or shields if we accept HH is canon.
40+ books suggest its pretty canon..

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AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


 Eonfuzz wrote:


I would much rather everyone have a half ass than no ass.


"A warrior does not seek fame and honour. They come to him as he humbly follows his path"  
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut





They made Lords of Contagion outright better than a Lord with a thunder hammer. Obviously, they want you to buy a new Lord of Contagion rather than use/convert an existing Chaos Lord into a DG lord.
   
Made in de
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Eldenfirefly wrote:
They made Lords of Contagion outright better than a Lord with a thunder hammer. Obviously, they want you to buy a new Lord of Contagion rather than use/convert an existing Chaos Lord into a DG lord.


Yeah, obviously. Gw IS eViL ANd WAnTs ouR moNEys!

Except, you can't buy any Lords of Contagions

Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





Sure you can. You just need to buy that old starter box that had a lord of contagion in it! See? now you but a whole box instead of just one model!

That or you buy a LOV. Because they are better than DG chaos lord too. lol
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






So your argument is that GW didn't put the TH into the codex because they want you to buy a box that was discontinued half a year before the codex was released?


Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in us
Slaanesh Veteran Marine with Tentacles




... GW needs to chill on the no model no rules and no kitbashing and wysiwyg approach. They take one more thing away from my chaos space marine army that I love and I am doing what I should have done 5 years ago and probably switching to whatever tabletop wargame happens to have a local community that isn’t GW at the time... or trying to introduce alternate rules that a local community can agree with. And only buy non-GW models, even if it is to play an alternate 40k rule set.

Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. -Kurt Vonnegut 
   
Made in nl
Annoyed Blood Angel Devastator




netherlands

they never use thunderhammers in the old csm codex, only when the bsf model came out they did granted the new codex with the option have the lord get a thunderhammer and up to now they cant get a stormshield and hh books are 30k an d not 40k seem to be the same game but isnt.

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