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Made in nl
Regular Dakkanaut






The whole idea that GW purposefully makes some units overpowered or underpowered for sales reasons really doesn't pan out. They have far too many hits and misses for that to be much of a factor. Just look at all the new models that got introduced with a whiff or old units that suddenly ended up overpowered for whatever reasons. From any broader perspective, it looks much more like either incompetence or really not caring too much.

   
Made in it
Gargantuan Gargant




Italy

Karol wrote:
Ork vehicles are cheap


Are they? Because last time I checked buggies were 110 points for T6 4+ and 8-9 W. A razborback is 120-130 for T7 10W 3+, and GK have those.

Ork gunwagon and kannon wagon are 170-175 points and fire at BS5+. Both are considered decent at least. BW and Bonebreaka are 155-180, decently solid for their cost, but melee only.

Karol wrote:

Saying that because those faction vehicles are fine is not a very convincing argument, same as the option one. So many units to pick from, when in reality most are dead options, that no one takes unless they have to.


It is when litterally anyone but SM players feel free to use them.

Karol wrote:

And immolator is not the same as a predator, It has a better gun, gets scout if dominions sit in it etc What does a predator get from being lets say in a IF or CF army?


It provides lascannon/autocannon/heavy bolter shots and saturation for other armored stuff. Which is what a tank adds in any army. An immolator is also more expensive than a razorback and has a better gun but much shorter range.

As I said "problem" with SM is that they have tons of stuff, including uber competitive heavy infantries that make tanks pointless. Remove them and tanks will have a purpose. I only play firstborn marines as I don't like the new one, and I'm pretty happy with the state of my razorbacks and land raider. I can't bring any gravis/primaris dude so tanks look like a legit option to consider. The flyer is utterly expensive though, 370 points is the gunship and it's less durable than a land raider.


 
   
Made in pl
Fixture of Dakka






Are they? Because last time I checked buggies were 110 points for T6 4+ and 8-9 W. A razborback is 120-130 for T7 10W 3+, and GK have those.

Ork gunwagon and kannon wagon are 170-175 points and fire at BS5+. Both are considered decent at least. BW and Bonebreaka are 155-180, decently solid for their cost, but melee only.

That difference is that it achives a goal. Something can cost 300pts, but if it makes your army work and is efficient, then it i good. A razorback is a 100+pts heavy bolter, which can't even have termintors in it. Want to talk about point inefficiency try to buy a Land Raider to run 5 termintors.



It is when litterally anyone but SM players feel free to use them.

no, dead options are dead. they don't exist. Otherwise you could as well draw the argument that if someone doesn't like their ork army, then they should just buy another army and play that. They are free to use a non ork army too.





It provides lascannon/autocannon/heavy bolter shots and saturation for other armored stuff. Which is what a tank adds in any army. An immolator is also more expensive than a razorback and has a better gun but much shorter range.

In a horde army. Points are equal in different armies. If core of my list costs 1600pts, then a 150 vehicle is a HUGE investment. the same or similar vehicle in an army that ends its core build at 1100 or 1200pts, can fit in more stuff. So unless your games are a squads of sister with an immolator vs a tactical with a razorback, the two things are not the same. Same with your ork example. An ork player can afford to fit in a weaker stuff, because the rest of the army is really cheap.



As I said "problem" with SM is that they have tons of stuff, including uber competitive heavy infantries that make tanks pointless. Remove them and tanks will have a purpose. I only play firstborn marines as I don't like the new one, and I'm pretty happy with the state of my razorbacks and land raider. I can't bring any gravis/primaris dude so tanks look like a legit option to consider. The flyer is utterly expensive though, 370 points is the gunship and it's less durable than a land raider.

That would not happen. If someone nerfs blade guard, predators or impulsors are not suddenly going to become good option. And if you remove attack bikes, then this doesn't suddenly give rise to primaris tanks being run. All it would achive is to make the space marines armies bad, and that is it. And while understand that for some people that is a good goal to have, I would not like to see it. Because GW for some reason still links my army point costs to marines, while at the same time not linking the rules.

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in it
Gargantuan Gargant




Italy

Terminators have free deepstrike, they don't need a ride.

Dead options doesn't mean anything. Most of the people play with the models they have, even if their codexes give them access to better options. I'm playing with 3 razorbacks and LR most of the times because I don't have many other options and I don't want to field a full foostloggin army. Simple. They work good enough against anything that isn't strictly designed to win tournaments. Razorbacks with twin lascannons aren't much weaker than immolators since they're 30 points cheaper and have twice the range. Twin ass cannons are 10 points more expensive but 12 shots at S6 AP-1 or 2 are a decent option now.

I get you don't really have much experience about 40k, orks for example don't really add vehicles to a list full of cheap stuff. They bring tons of vehicles, otherwise they don't have redundancy. They might add cheap stuff like min squads of kommandos to complete the list, it's not the opposite. Or design a list with approx 50/50 vehicles/infantries.

I'm sure your army doesn't have to play with 1600 points of infantries at any cost. If that's what you have I agree that adding a single tank is not a good idea but you're proving my point, people play with the models they have, they don't necessarily chase the flavour of the month.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/13 09:14:09



 
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought




The dark hollows of Kentucky

 ClockworkZion wrote:
 AnomanderRake wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
 AnomanderRake wrote:
 ZergSmasher wrote:
Do we really need yet ANOTHER thread about how bad the Predator (and tanks in general) are?


Some people hold out hope that if we shout loudly enough someone at GW will notice. Unfortunately for that to have a practical effect we'd probably have to try spamming GW's Facebook/Twitter, and then we'd just get blocked.

Probably easier to email the FAQ/Feedback address instead: 40kfaq@gwplc.com


Do you really think anyone reads that?

More than I think shouting into the void is a productive use of my time.

Agreed. They're more likely to listen to direct emails to the FAQ than complaints on internet fansites. I managed to get them to add DAEMONIC MACHINE SPIRIT to the Legion Super Heavys through an email campaign in 8th, so they do listen.
   
Made in gb
[MOD]
Villanous Scum







This thread was not needed.

On parle toujours mal quand on n'a rien à dire. 
   
 
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