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Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Some people engage with different forms of teaching media in different ways. Some can learn from almost anything; some can only learn from hands on interaction; some can learn only from a book; some a video etc...

Furthermore youtube videos can be detailed, but at times that detail can be harder to find. Instead of a page reference and key titled chapters you might have anything including a full 1 hour long video where the info you want is perhaps scatter shot through the video. Making it hard to just get the info you want.


That said if gw were to do terrain I'd hope they'd do a new book. The market has matured a lot from the days of the early terrain making manual and by today's standards some of the content is a bit on the basic side. Mel Bose did a fantastic book Terrain Essentials which compliments his youtube channel. It's a great book and certainly worth getting if you want a terrain book






Karol wrote:
Actualy in schools here to take part of an exam, you need a book from the courses professor. Then he signs it. Next year , has to bring new books, because if you bring a signed one you get failed in the course, and this means not being able to take the exam. But that is university etc stuff only.


That's, really strange considering in the UK universities have healthy secondhand book sales at the start of every year as 2nd and 3rd year students sell their core books on to the new students coming through. Even more so because by 2nd and 3rd year most units expect you to be making heavier use of journals and less about core text books .

Print Hunter
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Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






When I started out, there was this "How to paint citadel miniatures" book which I got second hand bundled with a bunch of models, and I must say it was a great help to me at that time.

These days though? No book can beat a youtube video with someone physically showing you how to perform a technique.

[...] To the Ork, the only conceivable explanation for this is that the vehicle travels faster because it is red. However, as disturbing as it sounds, these 'facts' become true. Red Ork vehicles do travel perceptibly faster than those of other colors, even when all other design aspects are nominally the same. Similarly, many captured Ork weapons and items of equipment should not work, and indeed do not work unless wielded by an Ork. I believe this is linked to the strong psychic aura surrounding all Orkoids and have developed the Anzion Theorem of Orkoid Mechamorphic Resonant Kinetics. I theorise that many Ork inventions work because the Orks themselves think that they should work. The strong telekinetic abilities of the Ork's subconscious somehow ensures that the machinery or weaponry functions as desired.
This is literally all GW has ever writte on this topic - everything else is meme knowledge 
   
Made in pl
Fixture of Dakka




What would be nice, although I don't think it warents a book. Would be some sort of official thing that shows stuff that is suppose to be coming in the future. But not the way GW does it right now aka we already saw those things months prior. Something like this is the mock up art of a new unit for a new or old faction we are working on. And then some article from the design studio what they think the role and use of the model is going to be.


 Overread wrote:
That's, really strange considering in the UK universities have healthy secondhand book sales at the start of every year as 2nd and 3rd year students sell their core books on to the new students coming through. Even more so because by 2nd and 3rd year most units expect you to be making heavier use of journals and less about core text books .

Various types of acadamics have their life based around the fact that they write new books. Each year they are different. Now with lower levels of education no body cares in the end, because you will throw it out in the end. The problems start when you enter a university, because how many times can a professor rewrite "Endocrinology of physical effort of professional athelets? Very few professors are willing to rewrite them, most are too lazy and just want to have a steady yearly income from a set number of books bought. So they do the , if you don't have the newest edition of the book, it means you haven't read it. Of course this has to be made legal, so for example "reading" the book is required as part of passing the class that allows you to take the exam. Now you could of course say F it, and say that you question the not passing grade and call the school for an official state exam. You could, but you wouldn't 99,99% of time because it is suicide. The exame is for a mark, so you have to prove it that you are good enough to get the proper mark. If you don't, lets say you want an A grade for scholarship, you pass to a B rank, and fail is D, you still get a D, because the state exam was for an A mark. On top of that you just made the school administration VERY angry, because they have to find 3 and pay 3 professors to seat council on your exam. It ends very bad every time, unless it is some part of university wars between different professors, but then you just have to be smart and don't take classes with professors who are on unfriendly terms with someone from your family or one of your professors etc. The problems can be huge, often study career ending, because professors in general don't treat anyone without a PhD as a human being and nothing comparing to buying a book for +10$ getting and signed and moving on to another semester without problems.



If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut









It seems to me that the simpler solution is "Do everyone else a favor, and stop new players from trying to get everything they need to know from the company store."

Seems to me that the sooner someone learns that the miniature wargaming hobby is bigger than GW's product range, the better for everyone.
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






No. In short.

As others have said, painting, modelling and the other artistic wings of the hobby are already well covered. In print you have White Dwarf. I appreciate and understand some won’t have read it for a while. But it is largely back to being a monthly journal, and less an ad rag. Yes it absolutely promotes the hobby, but….wouldn’t your in-house produced mag for your in-house produced product?

And they do a lot of completely free painting videos on the Tubes of You.

Whoops, hit submit too early. I’m editing this.

“Ethical” playstyle? Sorry to be blunt but wind your neck in. Nobody is Playing It Wrong. At all.

On list writing etc? That’s what the community is for. This is an inherently and indelibly social hobby. I mean, look at Dakka. Thousands upon thousands of nerds discussing GW stuff all day, every day. Even when I’m meant to be working (but seriously, work is completely fine with refresher breaks. And I do hit target).

As for the stores? There is one. It was introduced circa 2009/2010. I know this, because I read it. Funnily enough, it was being packed off to the Epsom Store on temporary secondment, with a photocopy of that very manual that proved to be the moment I turned my life around. I read it, I applied it. I wouldn’t say it worked, except it did. It absolutely worked. Whilst it’s true a new broom sweeps clean, the info in that volume saw me take the Epsom store from bottom of the league (which is probably why it needed someone on temporary secondment…) to The Best Performing Store in a fortnight. How do I know this? That store was part of the Ken Empire (there’s a chestnut from yesteryear), and I was informed of this by Ken Himself, during a managers meeting.

Examples?

1. Invite people back. This of course meant you needed to know something about which parts of the hobby a given customer focuses on. And yes, it even extends to “dude that is an excellent paint job, could you show me how to do that effect?”, because the door of knowledge swings both ways (Oooh Matron!)

2. Acknowledge everyone that walks into the store. A friendly hello and welcome is generally interpreted as a positive thing by shoppers. And, it’s proven to reduce shoplifting.

3. Ask about Their Hobby. The art of the open question. You’ll find common ground somewhere, and perhaps even a new perspective. This also helps you to matchmaker for games. For instance, you may have customers who’ve never met, but are both preparing for a tournament. Act as a community hub and see if (with their permission of course, for reasons of politeness and data protection) you can’t get birds of a feather flocking together.

4. Tell them what they need, but sell them what they want. This of course is contextual and to be applied as such. Someone well versed is going to need less help here. Newbies more help. Either or both may ask or reject help. Respect that. Basically it helps avoid the following, which was published in Viz, Britain’s 3rd (possibly 4th) funniest sweary grin mag. Yes I do know for a fact that at the time the manual I read was written, GW Management were aware of this strip.





Now that of course was a good 12 years ago, maybe longer? I think it was 2009. That time period is a bit of a blur for me due to various circumstances and the craziness that followed (good crazy, lead directly to where I am today, and I hit 10 years, or nearly a quarter of my life in my current career on Saturday), so one very much suspect there’ll have been tweaks and updates since.

But the above is a true reflection of what was, at least originally, the training manual for how to run a GW store. You may not like it. You may disagree with it. But given 89% (GW’s annual report published the other week) of their stores are profitable? You lack the factual evidence to say It Doesn’t Work, or that You Know Better.

Bonus fun fact? That manual was put together not by a consultancy. Not by some “pencil necked desk jockey” who read, well skimmed, a listicle online? But by the Managers already running successful and profitable GW stores. They basically put their heads together and committed to paper what they did that they believed was helping them to hit and exceed target. Regional Managers the observed their stores, and were able to get real life notes on who was and wasn’t doing what, and the differences those made.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/08/16 06:07:55


Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

H.B.M.C, 27 July 2022. Suddenly the Chaos Codex doesn't seem so bad.

Not at all quote mined. 
   
Made in se
Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets





Sweden

Karol wrote:
No book needed. Just go to https://www.youtube.com/c/BlackMagicCraftOfficial all levels of terrain building from people that just starting to some extrem projects a normal player probably will not do on their own.


Just because something excists on youtube we should not have books on the same subject? What?

Brutal, but kunning!  
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






 Gitdakka wrote:
Karol wrote:
No book needed. Just go to https://www.youtube.com/c/BlackMagicCraftOfficial all levels of terrain building from people that just starting to some extrem projects a normal player probably will not do on their own.


Just because something excists on youtube we should not have books on the same subject? What?


Genuinely? Which is more accessible and educational?

Consider GW’s painting vids. Sure, nothing they do outside of Warhammer+ is exactly high end painting. But, they cover basic to intermediate beautifully. It’s well framed, well lit, good multiple angles and crucially? It’s not simply describing the technique but demonstrating it. You can see how they hold their brush and apply the paint.

The same with terrain building. Stills and writing explanations simply cannot hold a candle to audio and visual demonstration when it comes to artistic endeavour.

Books just don’t have anything like the same accessibility.

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

H.B.M.C, 27 July 2022. Suddenly the Chaos Codex doesn't seem so bad.

Not at all quote mined. 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

And yet a book can cover some topics better than a video.

For example a whole video on colour theory might appear rather dry as a video. You aren't really showing any hand motions or such, you are mostly talking about theories and the colour accuracy of what you are showing is fairly important so someone with a poor screen (honestly most are super overly contrasty and bright by default) might well not "see" the same thing. Whilst a book has a fixed output.

Books can also be easier to reference for specific information. Sometimes a lot easier than time stamps in a video where you have to fiddle around finding the right time stamp (if the video has them) and then wait for the person to go through the talk to get to the info you want. For most people reading a bulletpoint mention in a book is quicker.



Again they can serve different purposes and its not really a case of one or the other but both together.

Furthermore both videos and books fail with hands on skills because many hands on skills require some degree of observation and feedback on what you are doing. AT least for best learning at a good speed. You can read or watch others do a thing but you might well still make mistakes when handling and performing the action yourself.

Print Hunter
Check out the latest 3D print model releases!  
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






Honestly, the only reason for (non-fictional) books is when you have to transport massive amounts of information of non-updating information which is too unwieldy for a video.

Neither books nor videos are good for regularly referencing information or for handling regularly updating information.

Your main arguments seem to be that good books are better than bad videos and that you are more comfortable with using books over new media. Which is a personal preference, but not an universal truth, especially not for people who have grown up with digital devices - which will soon outnumber those which haven't.

[...] To the Ork, the only conceivable explanation for this is that the vehicle travels faster because it is red. However, as disturbing as it sounds, these 'facts' become true. Red Ork vehicles do travel perceptibly faster than those of other colors, even when all other design aspects are nominally the same. Similarly, many captured Ork weapons and items of equipment should not work, and indeed do not work unless wielded by an Ork. I believe this is linked to the strong psychic aura surrounding all Orkoids and have developed the Anzion Theorem of Orkoid Mechamorphic Resonant Kinetics. I theorise that many Ork inventions work because the Orks themselves think that they should work. The strong telekinetic abilities of the Ork's subconscious somehow ensures that the machinery or weaponry functions as desired.
This is literally all GW has ever writte on this topic - everything else is meme knowledge 
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






 Overread wrote:
And yet a book can cover some topics better than a video.

For example a whole video on colour theory might appear rather dry as a video. You aren't really showing any hand motions or such, you are mostly talking about theories and the colour accuracy of what you are showing is fairly important so someone with a poor screen (honestly most are super overly contrasty and bright by default) might well not "see" the same thing. Whilst a book has a fixed output.

Books can also be easier to reference for specific information. Sometimes a lot easier than time stamps in a video where you have to fiddle around finding the right time stamp (if the video has them) and then wait for the person to go through the talk to get to the info you want. For most people reading a bulletpoint mention in a book is quicker.



Again they can serve different purposes and its not really a case of one or the other but both together.

Furthermore both videos and books fail with hands on skills because many hands on skills require some degree of observation and feedback on what you are doing. AT least for best learning at a good speed. You can read or watch others do a thing but you might well still make mistakes when handling and performing the action yourself.


See my comment about what GW is promoting.

Anything above Parade Ready is already incredibly well served by 3rd parties. Colour Theory itself is pretty advanced, and of limited market for GW. Anyone already well into their painting can find books, vids, tutorials aplenty.

Hence they don’t do many videos (fairly cheap to produce, especially if you’ve already got the equipment) for such advanced stuff. Doing a book (photography, writing, platemaking, printing, binding, shipping all add up) likely just isn’t cost effective.

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

H.B.M.C, 27 July 2022. Suddenly the Chaos Codex doesn't seem so bad.

Not at all quote mined. 
   
Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran






GW released some fantastic painting guides back during 7th edition, digital and paper. They had one for most factions. They were quite lengthy, with a lot of the models for the range being covered in step-by-step detail.

I bought the Ultramarines and Eldar ones and would have bought them all, but per typical GW, the cost was prohibitive. These were sadly discontinued almost immediately because they didn't sell well, most likely due to their prohibitive price point.

I imagine they can be found on online 2nd hand these days.

   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader





ccs wrote:


I don't think these two would sell enough to justify the meeting to discuss them. So don't hold your breath.


They aren't worth the paper they're written on, and they weren't even written down on paper...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Dysartes wrote:
ccs wrote:
I don't think these two would sell enough to justify the meeting to discuss them. So don't hold your breath.

Counter-point - encouraging the OP to hold their breath until such books are released would cut down on the number of pointless threads on Dakka...


Ignore button is great but their threads still pop up, that's how I stumbled in here...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/08/18 04:19:07


 
   
Made in us
Brigadier General






Chicago

 Gitdakka wrote:
How to build wargames terrain is one of my favorite GW books published. Perhaps a reprint would be in order?

I second this.
I have both editions, and I think an updated third edition would be great. Probably won't happen though as they were published when their terrain line was very small and GW wants you to buy their terrain now.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/08/18 12:33:01


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My Project Log, mostly revolving around custom "Toybashed" terrain.
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Made in us
Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers




Mono-pose is rapidly becoming the standard again. Perhaps a book on how to properly cut and re-shape via molding clay or greenstuff, in order to make new poses?
   
 
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