The Joy of Orks

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**TheChrispyOne**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

But I don’t think anyone has actually negotiated with Orks. At least, nobody seems to have survived to tell the tale.

Lord Inquisition Tylondia Falx bargained with a Blood Axe clan and got Makari in exchange for "Ten ten ten ten ten Guns and ten ten ten ten ten bullets and ten ten ten ten BIG guns and ten ten ten ten ten BIG bullets, plus 10 Imperial worlds that aren't expected to be raided." in Ghaz's book. She also got "Bites face of thing that tries to bite face first" (Biter) as an interpreter.. but that didn't turn out well.

**xerxeskingofking**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Also, music wise?

Two songs by the same artist which seem to sum up Orky Kultur? It’s Andrew W.K.

1. We Want Fun
2. Party Hard.

Especially Party Hard. We do what we like, and we like what we do. We know what we want, and we get it from you.

That’s the Orky life view right there.

chumbawamba-"tubthumping". that is all

**Dai**

Orks are a vile, terrifying, might is right species that brilliantly are the comic relief in 40k. Hats off to to original creators for that one!

They recognized that actual people or worse societies like this are a joke even if they can be incredibly damaging.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

They also show wonderfully how morality is largely subjective.

Orks do what Orks do, because they enjoy it, and their entire society endorses it.

It also makes them pretty resistant to the influence of the Chaos Gods. When you live in a pretty much entirely permissive society, where you’re allowed to follow your primal, instinctive drives? What promises can Chaos make? Oh, you can make me Boss? Where’s the fun in that? I can already become Boss, I just need to get brutal and kunnin’ enuff. Oh, you can make me rich? So can I. Spesh if I go thump Bazguff and all his Teef, including the ones in his Gob.

As the infamous snippet of lore suggest? Orks may well be the perfect society.

**Dai**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
They also show wonderfully how morality is largely subjective.

Orks do what Orks do, because they enjoy it, and their entire society endorses it.

It also makes them pretty resistant to the influence of the Chaos Gods. When you live in a pretty much entirely permissive society, where you’re allowed to follow your primal, instinctive drives? What promises can Chaos make? Oh, you can make me Boss? Where’s the fun in that? I can already become Boss, I just need to get brutal and kunnin’ enuff. Oh, you can make me rich? So can I. Spesh if I go thump Bazguff and all his Teef, including the ones in his Gob.

As the infamous snippet of lore suggest? Orks may well be the perfect society.

Typical Eldar overthinking, essentialist self pity

No, I get that Orks love what they do but in reality Orks are terrifying, absolutely horrific. One could make a great horror movie with just a few Orks if they leant away from the comic aspect.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

I dunno. If you strip away the Orks objectively having a great time? You just end up with brutes.

The comedic aspect of it is part of the horror of facing them. Some of their wonder weapons are more or less as dangerous to the wielder as to the victim. But the Orks don’t care. If a Shokk Attak Gun malfunctions and sends its wielder through the tunnel? That’s just as hilarious to any surrounding Orks as seeing an enemy stuffed full of manic Snotlings.

If you can mount a solid and successful defence against Orks? You only risk attracting more Orks, who have heard of this brilliant fight going on over here, and fancy a bit of that for themselves. Just a ridiculous level of exuberance and near inextinguishable enthusiasm for fighting, coupled with a total disregard of threats to themselves.

If a Mob gets totalled by the enemy? It’s a sign that Mob wasn’t ’ard enuff, and a chance for your Mob to now show how ‘ard you are by taking out that threat.

**Andykp**

For the horror of ORKS comes from the idea of facing them in combat. All the comedy stuff is in their society, stuff an average human would rarely see, what they would see was the giant gorilla sized brute with huge teeth and slabs of muscle tearing apart their friends and family

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Whilst laughing. And not laughing any less when a rival mob is obliterated.

**TheChrispyOne**

"Explaining Orks to my GF" touched on this when going over the point in lore where Yarrick is sent on his merry way: it's a huge cultural difference, like how a French Chivlaric Knight (Humies) can't understand the battle-joy of a Viking (Orks- again, horned helms..). But when you realize there's a cold pint and free pork in Valhalla if you die in battle? Sign me up! I mean, even the knightly code of honor came to heads with the Brits- the whole "I am Sir Duc du Lac de Poisson- I invoke an honorable duel with your leader!" Brits: [many peasant yeoman shoot at Duc with arrows, then give "V" sign].
In any event, "Kultur" shock could be very real- because the meta answer is that as humans, we are trying to imagine truly alien minds but we only have our reference.

**Real News**

In a setting defined by futility where meaningful victory is never a remote possibility for anyone, and the only evident constant is that everyone loses, all the time... Orks never lose.

**Dai**

TheChrispyOne wrote:
"Explaining Orks to my GF" touched on this when going over the point in lore where Yarrick is sent on his merry way: it's a huge cultural difference, like how a French Chivlaric Knight (Humies) can't understand the battle-joy of a Viking (Orks- again, horned helms..). But when you realize there's a cold pint and free pork in Valhalla if you die in battle? Sign me up! I mean, even the knightly code of honor came to heads with the Brits- the whole "I am Sir Duc du Lac de Poisson- I invoke an honorable duel with your leader!" Brits: [many peasant yeoman shoot at Duc with arrows, then give "V" sign].
In any event, "Kultur" shock could be very real- because the meta answer is that as humans, we are trying to imagine truly alien minds but we only have our reference.

Don't really buy this take. Yes they are aliens but they are aliens thought up by human minds based on human cultures and sub cultures. We can very much understand them, they are soccer firms in space with a big dose of comedy and exaggeration.

**TheChrispyOne**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

It also makes them pretty resistant to the influence of the Chaos Gods. When you live in a pretty much entirely permissive society, where you’re allowed to follow your primal, instinctive drives? What promises can Chaos make?

Had a think about this, and the whole metaphysics of 40k in general. Analogy and tangents may be more twisted than an Emperor's Children marine's face- but bare with me here:

Chaos Gods get all their power from mortal emotions. Every human/ Eldar/ Other non-ork xenos feed them as little "batteries". The average imperial citizen would give like 10%, psykers maybe 30-50%. Only when a mortal pledges to Chaos totally do they get 100%- but then, that's it. Their soul is eaten and Chaos gets a momentary spike in power and not the amount it'd get if the mortal just lived life free of Chaos taint. Individuals who exercise anti-emotion, being willpower and a sense of "Justice" (however perverted that may be in 40K) feed Order/ the Emperor. This could be why frickin Eisenhorn never got corrupted, despite all that he did/ happened to him.

Now Orks? Totally different! Though Orks do have souls and emotions, Chaos gets 0% from them. Like my fave faction from old Confrontation, The Dwarves of mid-Nor the Orks the Orks don't have to pray to thier gods they litterally ARE thier gods! So every Ork gives 100% to Gork and Mork, and the green tide's population being close to that of Humies- the Chaos Gods give the ork gods a LOT of leeway. One example is that ork ships that can use warp travel arrive where they should. Orks don't need Geller fields, because they can't be possessed- but the "Fings" that show up and start running around? In-flight entertainment!

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Oh Orks can be possessed!

Freebooterz has the background for Possessed Warp’eadz. And it seems a pretty bad thing to happen. To the Daemon.

In short, an Ork, even one a loonie as a Warp’ead is so certain of it itself and its Orkiness, the Daemon has no purchase. It’s trapped inside the Ork, but cannot influence its actions.

Freebooterz. Page 52 wrote: Occasionally Weirdboy Warpheadz (who have become addicted to the warp and reckless in the use of their psychic powers) become possessed by Daemons.

This happens because the Weirdboy acts as a natural conduit for warp energy when he uses his power and a daemon can be sucked into him from the Warp along with pure warp energy. However this does not result in daemonic possession of the same kind as would occur in a human psyker.

The Ork personality and soul are much more robust and resistant. Orks are resolute and self knowing and there is almost no weakness in their minds for a daemon to exploit in order to manipulate the host.

The daemon is therefore unable to take control and is effectively imprisoned within the Weirdboy with the result that the Weirdboy becomes greatly enhanced.

The cost to the Weirdboy is a form of mania in which he appears to be constantly arguing with himself whilst his mind disputes with the daemon prisoner within him. The result is a confused Weirdboy almost ecstatic with power, sharing his body with a daemon who is very disenchanted with the situation and prone to outbursts of frustrated wailing.

Such possessed Weirdboyz are very rare, and usually keep themselves to themselves or are avoided by other Orks. Like other Warpheadz the Possessed Weirdboy doesn’t need Minderz because he actually enjoys using his powers., but unlike ordinary Warheadz he has no Madboy followers. This is because the Madboyz, in their intuitively accurate way, recognise the daemonic presence in the Warphead and avoid him. Being less physically attuned, Gretchen and Snotlings are quite willing to serve the Warphead and soon become used to his endless conversations with himself, inexplicable poltergeist activity and occasional outbursts of daemonic wailing

**Grensche**

I read somewhere on the internet that Orks being influenced by Chaos is extremely rare. The gifts from the Chaos Gods would be unrecognizable to an Ork. They would shrug it off or laugh at it and think it was a trick done by Gork or Mork.

I love the Ork race. It's the only army I have collected and played in 40K. I tried playing other armies but I end up just going back to playing my Orks after one day. I just enjoy playing as Orks.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Mutated Orks, like Orkstealer Hybrids are, as per “Freebooters”, shunned by Orky society. This greatly upsets the mutants because they don’t understand why they’re no longer one of the Boyz.

However, mutation is relatively rare in the species

**Maréchal des Logis Walter**

To be fair, when all you need to be happy in life is a good brawl, why turn to ancient eldritch entity instead of just going off to punch that dirty half grot git Tufmaka. Or raid that umie base down there.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

That is indeed possibly why Orks rarely, if now ever* turn to the worship of Chaos.

Theirs is an entirely permissive society, largely free of the worries and anxieties of other advanced species.

Poverty isn’t really a thing, because your currency is Teef based, and everyone grows Teef throughout their life. And even if your gob is as empty as your purse? There’s nothing forbidden or taboo about knocking someone else’s Teef out their gob. You just need to be ‘ard enough to beat them up.

Jealousy is a thing. But theft is again not exactly the crime it is for other species, because Orks are sort-of self policing. If you swipe something and can give its former owner a good kicking? In Ork society’s eyes, that’s yours now.

There’s no worry about disease or death as it exists for other species. And you don’t need some funny looking “foreign” war god, because you’ve got Gork and Mork., who you absolutely believe in and can be influence by.

And so the Big Four just lack the general appeals by which they rope in members of other species. They just don’t really offer anything Ork society doesn’t already offer.

*Stormboyz of Khorne were a thing, once.

**[Kingfisher]**

The Freebooterz book really was a gem. Nowadays the basic Ork aesthetic is essentially fantasy barbarians meet Mad Max wastelanders. And that's awesome, but I personally love the pirates/raiders/mercenaries style the the early Orks had in abundance, as I find that it leads to a much more characterful force, rather than a faceless horde.

A great example is the Ork campaign from Dawn of War 2: Retribution. Bluddflag laying waste to an entire sector just to procure a fancy hat is the perfect blend of hilarious and awesome to me.

See, it wasn't just that Orks used to occasionally worship Chaos(well only Stormboyz really, and then only Khorne), they would also ally with Chaos warbands for fun and profit.

The Joy of Orks is that they are all about wanderlust, adventure, getting loot, and having a good scrap. They are the only race that can say on any level that they possess freedom. An interstellar biker gang roving about, shaking down the locals, and stirring up a ruckus.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Currently chewing my way through the second Ufthak novel.

I can’t recommend these enough for anyone with even a passing interest in Orks.

They’re quite nicely balanced in terms of perspectives, so it’s not all ‘ooligans on a rampage - though there’s plenty of that.

What I’m really enjoying and appreciating is how well the author presents the Orky point of view. They’re straight forward, not simple or stupid. Sometimes a bit short sighted, but mostly just having a great time doing what their nature demands of them.

In certain ways, Ufthak is an Orky Ciaphas Cain, without just being the Hero of the Imperium with a lick of green paint. Maybe with a dash of Grey Seer Thanquol, another firm favourite of mine.

We get traditional Orky views on the failings of humanity, and some fresh perspectives which are always welcome in my home.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kingfisher wrote:
The Freebooterz book really was a gem. Nowadays the basic Ork aesthetic is essentially fantasy barbarians meet Mad Max wastelanders. And that's awesome, but I personally love the pirates/raiders/mercenaries style the the early Orks had in abundance, as I find that it leads to a much more characterful force, rather than a faceless horde.

A great example is the Ork campaign from Dawn of War 2: Retribution. Bluddflag laying waste to an entire sector just to procure a fancy hat is the perfect blend of hilarious and awesome to me.

See, it wasn't just that Orks used to occasionally worship Chaos(well only Stormboyz really, and then only Khorne), they would also ally with Chaos warbands for fun and profit.

The Joy of Orks is that they are all about wanderlust, adventure, getting loot, and having a good scrap. They are the only race that can say on any level that they possess freedom. An interstellar biker gang roving about, shaking down the locals, and stirring up a ruckus.

If I was to get an Ork army going? I think I’d want to embrace that old aesthetic in the new models. Make each mob look like a single Household through a mob specific scheme or icon. Go for garish, possibly clashing colours. Big, bold and brash. “Proper” back banners with appropriate glyphs, telling everyone who the Nob is and what they’ve done.

Hell, as I’ve got all the 1st and 2nd Ed rules? I may even develop as an “army through the ages” project, like I’ve been meaning to do with Eldar for a good couple of years now.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, on my previous post? Brutal Kunnin’ gives a very interesting daemonic perspective on Orks, and why they’re bothersome. Yes of course I greatly enjoyed that insight!

**TheChrispyOne**

Though I enjoyed the Mike Brooks Orky novels and I know the Orks need a good straight man- the Human (and now Dark Elf) parts seemed they could be shorter. Yes, it's good to see there are other factions/ characters with their own lives that factor in to Uftak/ Snaggi 's adventures- but at the end of the day, we came for the big green boyz on the cover! That's my 2 cents.
And also shout out to Harry Meyers voicing the books, he does a GREAT job!

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Something the second book covers which I hadn’t considered before is that as an Ork gets bigger, so does its brain. Which means Nobz and Bosses can fink more than Boyz.

I like that concept, even if it remains questionable being but the finking of a single Ork. One could argue that because a Boss needs to be Brutal and Kunnin, clever Orks are better placed to become Boss in the first place.

Right. When’s the next Ufthak novel out??