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So, I have always wanted to do a Space Marine Biker list, thought the idea was cool and you rarely see Bikes used, much less an army focused around bikes. The original list I wanted was entirely made up of SMB squads and Attack Bike Squads. But the truth is, I'd be looking at around 6-700 dollars to put together that list, and money is definitely a concern for me. I was looking at my options, and saw that if I used everything in it, the Ravenwing Boxed set is probably the best deal. 90 bucks for 6 SMB, 1 attack bike, and a landspeeder. I am not crazy about landspeeders, but in the interest of saving money, I worked them in. I think I could put this list together for around 350 if I could get a decent deal on a LR and the assault termies.

Captain - Relic Blade, SMB, - 165

SMB Squad x 6 - Attack Bike w/MM, Powerfist, Flamer, Meltagun - 230

SMB Squad x 6 - Attack Bike w/MM, Powerfist, Flamer, Meltagun - 230

SMB Squad x 6 - Attack Bike w/MM, Powerfist, Flamer, Meltagun - 230

Landspeeder - MM - 60

Landspeeder - MM - 60

Landspeeder - MM - 60

Land Raider Redeemer - Extra Armor, MM - 265

Terminator Assault Squad - TH/SS - 200

1500

The captain would attack to one of the SMB squads to give it a little more close combat oomph. Everything in my army could move 12 and shoot still, and everything save the LR could turboboost as needed. 3 mobile and decently tough squads for objectives with melta for vehicles/MC and a flamer in case some hordes need toasting. Finally, the termies in a LR give me some heavy duty countercharge capability.

One thing I was thinking about is maybe switching the landspeeders over to storms. I lose 1 BS on each of them, which would hurt. But the scout move could be pretty nice, and being able to tinker a little bit with drop pod/DSing armies could be fun too. They are 5 points more each though with MM, so I would have to maybe drop the extra armor on the LR, I dunno, not crazy about the idea but its a possibility.

Anyhow, let me know what you think. C&C is very welcome.

Even though SM bikers are nice with a T5, you still have a low model count (28 in total @ 1500pts), so you DO NOT want to get into CC. With that being said, if you are within template range for the flamers, you will be more than likely getting assaulted. I know you are running a Terminator Assault squad, but they won't be keeping pace with your bikes and speeders most of the game. I know they will be in the redeemer but I still think its a points sink...and they are still slow as balls.

I also like bikers, and have a bunch...but in 5th edition, they just aren't reasonable.

I'm not a huge fan of weapon mixing with biker squads, though I guess with 3 identical its less of an issue.

Pretty sure MM/HF or MM/HB landspeeders are the same price as a straight MM landspeeder, and gives a bit more versatility (I would stay away from storms personally)

Hordes may be an issue, youve got plenty of flamers, but not many shots, and TH/SS termies arent that great against 30boyz etc, maybe change one of the biker squads to twin flamer with a HB?

As far as being super competitive, thats not really a concern for me. I run into enough boring cookie cutter optimised lists this is more a for fun type army. As far as being in template range I thought about it, but at only 5 points each, I really dont lose anything by taking them. Not much else for me to do with 10 points except maybe put a combi melta on the captain or have one squad with 2 meltas or something.

As for the Termies being slow, 20" assault range threat seems like plenty to me. I think this list would struggle against horde lists, and have good and bad games against mech lists, but I think it should be fun and different from the standard mech marines lists.

That being said, I think if I play at higher points levels, a vulcan would make the list a good deal more viable, just stuff him in the LR and enjoy the TL MC goodness.

I think one way del'Vhar could have meant 'slow' as in once they commit to combat, they are left out in the breeze and a single 'main battle tank' is likely to be dead as AV14 is frankly not that great in this melta rich world.

In general, the list looks ok.
I feel MM Attack Bikes would do you better than MM Land Speeders, while I do agree with those that suggest double up weapons.

It's wierd to have you comment about facing off against boring cookie cutter list but don't mind the cookie-cutter troops and the cookie cutter fast attack in your list.

The costs of the bikes are of by 25pts. Just drop the fists and save some pts that way. I would also incorporate HFs on your speeders. Do this by dropping a single bike and EA on your LR.

Also as people have mentioned, mixing weapons is a bad idea. Go with all mela or 2-1 melta/flamer

Sanctjud wrote:
It's wierd to have you comment about facing off against boring cookie cutter list but don't mind the cookie-cutter troops and the cookie cutter fast attack in your list.

Well, as I said this was an alternate list to the one I had originally wanted. I am really not crazy about speeders, but its either that, or spend another 75 dollars per squad to get attack bikes. I dislike cookie cutter, but even without the landspeeders, the ravenwing box saves me 25$, and I cringe at the idea of the landspeeders just being a 30 dollar paperweight.

As for the troops being cookie cutter, I don't know that I have ever run into an army using SMB as troops in person. A 6 man SMB squad with the same special weapons as a 10 man squad in a rhino still play very differently.

As for the comments about the single landraider being out of place/focus of virtually all anti tank fire, I had definitely had thoughts along those lines as well. Nobody has really suggested an alternative though. I need some sort of countercharge capability. I toyed around with the idea of a command squad, but pound for pound they just aren't that great, and it would cost an extra 90 dollars or so.

I will probably do a proxy battle with this army, so I think I will tinker with it and try the MM/HF LS and see if its worth it. I dunno, like I said I havn't used LS before, but I suppose once I am in 24" range with the MM, most weapons can hit me anyway. I do have visions of getting killed by rapidfiring bolters, but we'll have to see.

Thanks for the comments so far.

A few points from a guy that has run biker armies extensively:

Max squads aren't so good. COmbat squad into a decent squad and a bad squad?

Min squads with an attack bike and 2 special weapons is where it is at. Lots of special weapons.

When choosing to support the army, think about your needs. I advise using the min squads and as many land speeders with typhoons as you can get. That is where it is at. The typhoons pop anything av12 or below, and the melta bikers get 13 and up. Move a lot and shoot gak up, avoid combat like the plague unless there is a vilid reason to get stuck in.

I need some sort of countercharge capability

Have you thought about working at not 'needing' it.
______________________
Well it depends.
Due to differing operational ranges it can be beneficial to having the melta guns on one squad and the MM in the other.

Surely MSU is doable, but the full bikers offer a specific kind of flexibility over special weapon spam (which special weapon spams are decent).

The issue with Min squads is that they can get in each other's way. Start-up costs are high. More kill points. They can be ignored without too much pain, but going with Max Sizes, Min Sizes, and varying sizes work well for different players.

There is a minor issue with your suggestion Inigo, Melta bikers getting 13 and up coupled with avoiding combat.... this goes straight to the 'valid' reason.
Melta gun range = combat range. 1:1 trades are not always a good thing (not saying it can't pay off), but there is so much more to a biker list than that.

Supporting elements include:
Land Speeders, Attack Bike Squadrons, Preds, Dreads, Command Squad, and several other units as points increase.

-Sanct.

Have you thought about working at not 'needing' it.

Sure I have thought about it. But at the end of the day, close combat is only avoidable for so long. In a killpoints mission, I can avoid it as long as I can outrun the enemy. Depending on the deployment and the opponent, this can be as much as the whole game, or as little as 2-3 turns. In an objective mission, I really don't think it can be avoided for more than 4 turns without one side having decimated the other. When you introduce specific locations which must be occupied at the end of the game, the advantage of mobility is reduced. Yes I can wait until the end of the game to snag the objectives, but I still have to be within 18" at the end of turn 4 if I want a chance, and there aren't many armies that won't try to have something waiting there with some close combat punch.

My current army is an Eldar list, and although many people claim otherwise, its my opinion that eldar only have 2 units that are anywhere reasonably points efficient in CC, The Avatar, and JB seer council. I ran lists that did not include an avatar for a while, but I found that they just fall short too many times. Even though he is slow as all hell, and will rarely catch many things if they really don't want to fight him, his threat radius helps me to force the enemy to react to my tactics, rather than act with their own. Likewise, a LR with assault termies in it is certainly not a world beater. But as long as I keep it running in the general area of my forces, my opponent knows that he may get into assault with my bikers, but they are tough enough that it wont be easy to kill them in CC in one turn, and the next turn they will have some assault termies as support.

I was more thinking about:
Kiting and then closing in and double tapping, then initiating your own charge.

It's not so much avoiding combat all game, but knowing when to commit or when it's in your favor.

At 1500 points the board is pretty big.

As for counter attacking termies... it's a light balance rope to walk... clearing a unit off a bike on your turn is not always a healthy thing, as counter-intuitive as it sounds.

I fully intend to use my mobility to my advantage, and yeah if I know I am going to get charged next turn, I will make sure to take the charge for myself. That being said, you don't always get that option no matter how mobile you are.

Beyond that, I think you are focusing too much on the counter part of it. Close combat is a big part of the game, and you need at least one squad which can handle itself in that respect. Even my squad with the captain is only a moderate hitter in that regard, and whether its taking an objective, defending your own objective, or protecting some of your troops, you are going to need a close combat squad at some point.

So I dunno, if someone can suggest a smarter CC oriented unit that has a reasonable chance of getting to CC in a list with no other vehicles in it, I am all ears.

There is none, but I don't know, I'm quite content without a combat oriented unit between 1500-1750. I don't rely on it and it's just developed to the point I don't need it. I think it's just being risk averse so covering your bases is still a good thing.

I like your list personally with one exception and that is the weapon mixing on the squads. If you are having concerns about the list check out the site in my signature, there are a few good articles on list building etc. I disagree with several of the ideas on here that the heavy hitting assault unit isn't necessary in this list. The LRR full of TH/SS termies will act as a great deterrent to getting stuck in with your bikes as long as the LRR is 12-18 inches away from the bikes, which is certainly doable. If they are threatened with a powerful counter assault your opponent will be less likely to want to assault your bikes and get himself closer to your hammer.

Just out of curiosity, what kind of list do you run Sanct?

Also, glad to hear I'm not the only one who thinks that Overwatch. As for the mixing the weapons, I dunno I can see where people are coming from. My opinion on marines is they aren't like a lot of armies where their units are totally focused on one aspect, IE Eldar. Every troop unit is good at basically everything, and can take on any threat. With the redundant mixed units, my opponent can't really say I have tanks I want to protect, so I need to take out the anti tank unit. Or the anti horde unit, or whatnot. Depending on my opponent, the special weapon I need has up to 6 ablative wounds to protect it. I dunno, if I'll try out both eventually and see which works better for me.

Just to be clear, I can see the rationale for having the TH/SS. It covers a legitimate concernt for an army that doesn't want to me in combat.
I'm only suggesting (an extreme I will admit) opinion that it may not be necessary.
So instead of supplimenting the list, you could compliment the list and maximize the primary strength.

____________

As for my list, it's an All-comers 1500 list:

Captain, Relic Blade, Storm Shield, Bike.
8 Bikers, 2 Meltas, Fist, Hvy bolter Attack Bike.
8 Bikers, 2 Meltas, Fist, Hvy bolter Attack Bike.
8 Bikers, 2 Flamers, Fist, Hvy bolter Attack Bike.
3 Multi-melta Attack Bikes.
3 Multi-melta Attack Bikes.
3 Hvy Bolter Attack Bikes.
1490/1500.

The original list I theory crafted was similar to that, one more squad of troops and one less of attack bikes though. Could be a very interesting list, but cash wise its pretty expensive for 1500 points. Like 350 for the attack bikes and 320 for the regular bikes. Although if you took your time and bought via ebay/swap shop I am sure you could get it at a decent amount less.

Used 3 WFB Chaos Knights as 15 of those said bikers Converted of course.
I bought 3 Ravenwing box sets.
6 Attackbikes.
6 (Metal) Bloodcrushers as convered Attack bikes.

It was a converting project more than a competitive force, but I'm glad it works for me

How do 3 models become 15?

Also, I reread all the advice in here and modified my list slightly. This is it for anyone who cares to read it.


Captain - Relic Blade, SMB, Storm Shield - 180

SMB Squad x 6 - Attack Bike w/MM, Powerfist, Meltagun, Meltagun - 235

SMB Squad x 6 - Attack Bike w/MM, Power Weapon, Flamer, Flamer - 210

SMB Squad x 6 - Attack Bike w/HB, Power Weapon, Flamer, Flamer - 200

Landspeeder - MM/HF - 70

Landspeeder - MM/HF - 70

Landspeeder - MM/HF - 70

Land Raider - Extra Armor - 265

Terminator Assault Squad - TH/SS - 200

1500

Added in the HFs on the landspeeders. Not sure I will keep it this way, but I am willing to give it a try. The regular land raider instead of the crusader gives me something the rest of the list is lacking, weapons with range over 24".

I added the stormshield on the captain because I think it will make it decently unlikely that a regular squad with a PF could kill him in one turn. Even if they got charged, he has a fair chance at making it through the combat.

Other than that, the 2 flamer squads give me a little more anti troop, and the squad that will have the captain attached is setup to be as anti MC/heavy infantry as possible.

Sorry, I left out 3 (BOXES of) WFB Chaos Knights.
______________________-

To the list:
I don't suggest fists in anything but larger squads...it's not really a 'hidden' powerfist anymore.

Power weapons on biker Vets are the worst value you will ever get. You do not get +1 A cause he does not have a second combat weapon. So you pay for HALF of what you should get at full price...rubbish choice.

MM/Flamers combo is kinda wierd. More anti-infantry on top of the pretty massed, accurate, and fast moving TL-Bolters?...ok.
MM/HF speeders are ok I guess...just not my cup of tea...esp. with the lack of armor saturation to help out the skimmers.
LR+Termies: meh, they seem gimmicky at 1500.

Yeah, I was sort of thinking the same thing about the power weapons. Just wasn't sure what else to spend it on. I suppose I could drop both PWs, give those two sergeants combi meltas, and switch another squad from flamers to meltas.

I dunno, I play against tyranids, and I can imagine some flamers coming in handy, but then again, some meltas could be nice too. I will have to try it out I guess.

Edit: As for the LR and termies, I think it could complement the force nicely. And honestly, at the end of the day thats about 100 dollars for 465 points, as compared to buying more bikers or something else and spending 2-300 easy. Maybe somewhere down the line I will be able to get some attack bike squads in there, but that time ain't right now.