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Hello,
Am starting up a new skaven force and was wondering what peoples thought and or experiences were on the plague furnaces versus the screaming bell/seer.
Would be playing around the 2000 mark if that makes a difference to peoples thoughts.

Haven't tried either out extensively, but here are my general thoughts.

At 2000 points, the Bell is almost a quarter of your army. Being 440 points makes the bell almost twice as expensive as the Furnace. On the other hand, the Bell has a ward save and doesn't need to be in close combat to be effective (Between the Grey Seer and the ringing of the bell, it's almost an artillery piece!)

Other notes I guess is that you need a block of Plague Monks to push the furnace, so if you're tight on special points for whatever reason that's out...

All in all, these are just logistical stuff, so, anyone with actual experience? lol

I think it looks cool, but I don't think it's worth the points compared to Skaven war machines and weapons teams. But yeah, for just a 2k match it's very pricey.

At 2k points, you have a big points problem. The seer can't get much in the way of gear, not to mention the lack of room for even a naked BSB.

I don't see the bell being viable below 2400 points. By 3000 points, the bell becomes a very easy choice. It can throw out a lot of pain, gives the seer a great vantage point to rain more pain, and, in a horde unit, can be a nice anchor point for a battle line.

Downside: Every big shooty thing on the other side of the board will be pivoting towards you because you will be getting a 2+ ward save versus any wardable magic directed at it.

The furnace however is viable at 2k points. Its a pricey investment once you factor in the plague monks. But it ignores armor saves or reduces armor by at least -2 with a lot of attacks. Even going 7 wide (MMFFFCM M=Monk, F=Furnace, C=Champ)You are throwing out 24(counting the supporting 2nd rank monks) attacks plus the priest. And its and easy horde unit building block. Add impacts, the wrecker attack and the fog.

But again, be ready to yell "Incoming" a lot.

I guess my main points is that they both are fun units, look impressive, and have their rolls. But they are not going to survive a lot of games. But every bit of shooting aimed at them is less aimed at your other units hauling across the board to rip into the enemy. Distraction is the single best thing they both provide.

The two units are completely different. One gives your grey seer some good buffs and the army around him some good buffs (remember, the 4+ ward save is worth ~45 pts and you get it without using allotment). The bell can take a lot of fire with the 4+ ward save.

The furnace is great at killing things but will be shot and killed if there are multiple cannons on the field.

Both give you an unbreakable unit of whatever size you want which is a huge advantage at times.

Personally I don't use a grey seer so my only option is the furnace. It has worked great. Even when it gets shot down it is taking fire away from the abomination. It kills most things very well, just don't throw it at single monsters, not so good there.

Both units got hurt pretty badly with this edition.

With war machines hitting both the character and the furnace/bell the grey seer will more than likely get gibbed off the bell on turn one or 2, a 4+ ward is still a 50/50 chance of failing, and it does d6 wounds. I dont think i will run the bell in any list under 3000, there just needs to be a furnace, hell pit, and other things on the board to draw fire off of it.

The furnace got hurt even more since it doesnt have any type of save at all, a cannon shot will kill the priest on top of it 75% of the time. It too will be reserved for much larger games.

If you take a Grey Seer, take the Bell. It's a valuable source of protection that no other wizard except perhaps Slann can lay claim to. Grey Seer on his own will be hunted down. Personally I don't think the Seer needs much gear anyway. At the end of the day, he's is a Lvl 4 wizard! What more do you want?

Plague Furnace (like most Clan Pestilins stuff) is better against small numbers of troops with high armour save. It will hit hard but there's a limit to what it can do in any one game and it can't be everywhere at once (whereas the Bell has a better range of abilities that can affect more things on the battlefield).

I disagree entirely with the if you take a grey seer take a bell...

In 8th edition the bell becomes a liability. No LoS roll, and with the newfound accuracy of war machines and it hitting both the bell and the seer, he got a lot squishier on that thing... The 6+ to randomize onto the seer was huge in 7th, and made the bell an excellent source of protection. Now against war machine all he has is a 4+ ward, its a 50/50 shot, but odds are when that cannonball or stonethrower gets through he is toast. Also the best roll on the bell used to be an 8-9 for the free scorch, but with it being a bound spell and taking power dice now, it got a lot worse.

Dont forget also that if the bell unit gets into combat attacks can still be directed at the grey seer, meaning he just has the 4+ ward save, you can get that with the magic items in the book now, and for a lot less.

Big bunker of clanrats with a weapon team to protect the flanks is how im running mine.

Depends on your playgroup really. Bell and furnace work fine if your game store doesnt have many empire or dwarf players. No real difference vs wood/dark/high elves, lizardmen, brets, beasts, demons, chaos, vampire counts and ogres. Might be a liability vs orcs and goblins, but playing O&G is also a liability so it might just even out

LEts not pigeon hole the bell because of a small minority of armies that massively benefit from the warmachine rules. There is a difference between getting a bad draw in a tournament and losing it all compared to just playing at a store where your entire day doesnt revolve around a single bad game

Im not really liking the bell because it doesnt really *Do* anything for me anymore... has nothing to do with warmachines. Most of the results seem pointless now with the much better BSB abilities, extended charge ranges and massively bad miscast table (this is a result of the grey seer not the bell). Rather just have a grey seer with power scroll not blow up my entire unit!

JJBCollect2 wrote:At 2k points, you have a big points problem. The seer can't get much in the way of gear, not to mention the lack of room for even a naked BSB.

I would like to point out that the bell will use up almost all of your lord slot, but you will still have the 25% hero slot to field your BSB