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Heyy, this is my highly experimental "mini-mech" thousand sons list
I know the flaws of this list more or less in and out but feel free to point them out if you want! :L

HQ

1. Ahriman of the Thousand Sons - 250 pts.

Troops

2. Rubric Marines,
w/ 9 marines, 1 aspiring sorcerer, wind of chaos, rhino, extra armour and havoc launcher - 362pts.

3. Rubric Marines,
w/ 9 marines, 1 aspiring sorcerer, wind of chaos, rhino, extra armour and havoc launcher - 362pts.

4. Rubric Marines,
w/ 9 marines, 1 aspiring sorcerer, wind of chaos, rhino, extra armour and havoc launcher - 362pts.

Heavy Support

5. Chaos Vindicator
w/ extra armour and havoc launcher - 155 pts.

Total = 1491 pts.



Like I said I know this is a flawed list but feel free to offer any advice/criticism you wish

thanks,
Zepher.

EDIT TO LIST.

okay I've now re-worked it to 2000 pts.

1. Ahriman of the thousand sons - 250pts.

2. Rubric Marines
w/ 9 marines, 1 aspiring sorcerer, bolt of change and rhino - 327pts.

3. Rubric Marines
w/ 9 marines, 1 aspiring sorcerer, bolt of change and rhino - 327pts.

4. Rubric Marines
w/ 9 marines, 1 aspiring sorcerer, bolt of change and rhino - 327pts.

5. Rubric Marines
w/ 9 marines, 1 aspiring sorcerer, bolt of change and rhino - 327pts.

6. Chaos Predator
w/ twin-linked Lascannon and lascannon sponsons - 165 pts.

7. Chaos Predator
w/ twin-linked lascannon, lascannon sponsons and twin-linked bolter - 170pts.

8. 9 summoned Horrors of Tzeentch - 117pts.

TOTAL = 2000pts.

You need more anti tank, although the sorcerers with bolt of change might do it.

I see this as okay against marines, but lame against anything else.

agreed, I would also say in 1500 pts i would drop ahriman. Not worth the pts at that level or any level. a reg sorcerer of tzeentch could do more damage than him. Plus you can add more antitank to your Asprirings. ALso drop the vindicators.....take OBlits!. @ 1500...2 wounds...worth the 75 pts a piece.

I'd agree with them on not taking Ahriman, at these points. If your not going to go by tzeentch's favor numer of 9 for the squads you might as drop them down to 5 man squads, it will free up about 345 pts. If your going to take a vin might as well give it possesion, throw in the obliterators with the points you have left and mix up some of the powers, I generally run doombolt or bolt of change in my troop slots. Possed arent a bad unit to run with the sons cause the mark gives them a 4+ invuln save as well.

Decent excpet you have very little Av I run a TS list I use a predator as long ranged support with side sponson las cannons and auto cannon.

Try reducing squad size to 7 and try to squize in some long ranged AV support

I know Ahriman isn't very competitive and the only reason I would take him would be for fluff reasons

and this list is a bit of a WIP, I plan to scale it up to 2000pts. and I made the HQ Ahriman to write some great fluff when I play against my friends space wolves!

Well, the Rubric Marines are too expensive for what they can achieve at the battle field.
I'd replace two units by CSM squads with the MoT.
This would give your army a bit more variety.

wuestenfux wrote:Well, the Rubric Marines are too expensive for what they can achieve at the battle field.
I'd replace two units by CSM squads with the MoT.

Well it wouldn't be much of TS list without rubrics. And if hes trying to stay fluff wise its next to impossible to have normal CSM unless their recent renegades or something working for Ahriman which would also be abit unlikely.

Rubrics may be expensive i agree but personally I find that their well worth their points.

against MEQ's their AP3 is a godsend I find!

ZepherZealot257 wrote:against MEQ's their AP3 is a godsend I find!

Only if the TS can maneuver around so that the MEQ unit gets no cover save.

wuestenfux wrote:

ZepherZealot257 wrote:against MEQ's their AP3 is a godsend I find!

Only if the TS can maneuver around so that the MEQ unit gets no cover save.

Too true :L,
although I think the list might struggle against the likes of mech Blood Angels so I've decided to bump it up to 2000pts. and throw in 2 las-preds

The 2000 pt list contains too many TS units, three should be fine.
Bikes are too expensive for what they can achieve.
I'd take Termies as they are pretty cheap.
Give them combi-meltas. They can also form some sort of protection to your TS.

this isn't meant to be a competitive list, just a fluff one for me whenever I face my space wolves bud.

First of all Ahriman is very competive. Now moving on 4 squads of TS is just fine but drop I would suggest dropping two of the bolts to doom bolt. I would also drop the lesser deamons, as I find them not to do that great. If you're going to run the preadators drop the turret back down to a autocannon and save some points. The bolter upgarde will be better suited for one of the rhinos. If you don't have any warpspawn models I's get some and when Ahriman gets close enough start creating monsters, I mean you can do 3 a turn.

Also I dont know how some one would say that Ahriman isn't competive when he can cast 3 shooting attacks a turn if he wants.

Don't forget that your sorcers aren't that bad in assault the are just like a regular tac squad with a librarian but yours can't be picked out in close combat, lots of instant killing fun drive up turn one doombolt a squad get out on turn 2 and do it again then assault and intsant kill a charcater, good times.

If you ever take just a sorcerlord don't forget he can use two powers a turn with the MOT.

I dont run Tzeentch much my only fig is my Sorcerer, Khorne is my strong point, I just re-painted all my beakheads formerly Dark Angels into my Nurgle Choosen. Against Space Wolfs try using close combat as it works great for me. Demons only work well if teamed with a good close combat unit or as a meat shield. 2 Preds are a common thing I use as well as a Vindi, a Havoc for that ranged anti-tank and 2-3 Termi squads will do just fine.

This wasn't really to be a competitive list, just something that could make some good fluff in a bat/rep, I honestly can't imagine Ahriman the 'exile' getting his hands on a thousand sons vindicator

Tear OF The Angel wrote:First of all Ahriman is very competive.

Maybe expand on this more? As I see it, he only has 2-3 tricks and that's it. Triple Spawning and suedo-anti-harder targets in combat.
Don't forget the GW FAQ that rammed a steel rod up his rearend. 3 Shooting Attacks, but none of them the same.

Phailiman is a 'fun' character as the main thing one would use him for is triple spawning....which is not too consistant and the timing of it limits it to forever 6", which is crippling for range. It essentially puts him in a dangerous situations and he is not that durable.

Worse yet, hoods and worse on worse Runes of Warding just shut him down....all that for the price of a loyalist Land Raider?

You sir see the cup half full and I'd like to hear what you have to add that makes him competitive as your other suggests are sound and you sound like you have much more experience with him.

Ahriman can:

Use Doombolt, Warptime, Wind of Chaos, Gift of Chaos, Bolt of Change at will.

Has Black Staff:
Allows Ahriman to take 3 psychic tests in same turn (in other words two powers in shooting or assault turn and one other).

Shoots inferno bolts which are AP3 instead of AP5.


Which means you're basically looking at a more expensive Tigurius with a better pistol in power armour with an inv save a 5+......

HQ

Chaos Sorcerer: Wings, MoT, Warptime, Winds of Chaos 205
Demon Prince: MoT, Warptime, Winds of Chaos 205

Elite
Chaos Dread: Multimelta 100

Troops
5 Lesser Demons 65
9 Thousand Sons w/Champion: Warptime, Melta Bomb; Rhino w/ Combi Melta 319
9 Thousand Sons w/Champion: Warptime, Melta Bomb; Rhino w/ Combi Melta 319
9 Thousand Sons w/Champion: Warptime, Melta Bomb; Rhino w/ Combi Melta 319

Heavy
Predator: TL Lascannon, Lascannon Sponsons 165
Defiler 150
Defiler 150

1997

HQ's look ok.
Dread is fluffy.
Lesser Daemons don't add anything useful to the list.
Champion powers are...though I'd think one more wind would be nice.

Pred doesn't need the top TLLC.
Defilers are ok.

Well, for the price of Ahriman, you can get two pretty good Chaos Sorcerers :3 Or two Daemon Princes.

Looks good though. Bolt of change would be fun. Vindicators are much better with lash of submission, but I suppose they could work with tzeetch too.

Lose the Lesser Daemons and T-L Lascannon to get yourself some rhinos.

Oh, didn't see the new list....Seems feh to me.

Wind of chaos really isn't that good. You're paying for th MoT, might as well just take bolt of change. Lesser daemons are lolwut, as is the dreadnought. For 165 points, I'd take a better distraction unit, like raptors with meltas.

LC Preds usually never redeem themselves. I've never had any luck with them. Obliterators will get the job done too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Corennus wrote:Lose the Lesser Daemons and T-L Lascannon to get yourself some rhinos.

He has rhinos..

@Samus_aran115

Bolt of Change is not good.
At least wind will make up for the weakness of the Dust Buckets vs. targets in cover.

AC/LC preds are more economical with respect to vehicle busting than Obliterators.

Bolt of change is a great power.. Wind of chaos is an assault type power your not going to use it unless your next to your enemy. Keep with bolt of change cuz atleast you got a transport popper and a good secondry weapon in your squad.

Oh and last i checked warp time doesn't effect squad members m8. Basicly your asking for a re-roll with your bolt pistol or force weapon. If your in melee thats gd if your at ranged thats really a waste of points in my opinion.

Bolt of Change:
Requires to hit.
It's a melta-wanna be but without the melta.
In a rhino to shoot out requires it to move 6", which is not a great use of the rhino.
In addition, the oppurtunity cost is that if you use it against tanks, you forfeit the rest of the squad's shooting... all 180+ points.
Vs. Hordes it's a one shot deal when you could have a rhino drive by or a plop down and hose.

Wind:
It allows them to use the rhino the fullest.
It allsows them to deal with squads that hunker down in cover that make the Inferno bolts sad.
It allows them to focus on what they are designed to kill: MEQs and the like.

BoC is diversifying an incredibly niche unit. Maximizing that niche is much stronger than making the whole weaker by a joke of a shot.

BoC requires:
Psytest, then to hit, then to pen, then cover, then an effect...that's a sequence of 5 events to somewhat cover their inability to deal with tanks.
Then there's the other things it could shoot at, MC's... in which case the bolters can annoy them, but still require high rolling on inferno bolts.

etc. etc. etc.
So there is alot stack up (in my point of view) against Bolt of Change, and much for Wind.
I'd like to hear your point of view on the subject what am I missing or not seeing with Bolt of Change? Maybe my Deathguard hate for all things Tzeentch has clouded my 'fair and balanced' approach to (hopefully) most things.

Well to be exact Bolt of Change should be used mostly in ranged. Yes i agree with you a 100% that wind of chaos can kill alot more then bolt of change could but would you really want you Thousand Sons marines in that close of a range when you could be doing some seriose damage with range?

Personally I like to keep my troops in ranged thats why I think Bolt of change is a more effective choice for this list. How ever if you want your TS to be more Assault like then yes by all means use Wind of Chaos.

For ranged purposes its Bolt of change all the way.
For close combat its Wind of Chaos.

Basicly you got a comparsion between a long ranged melta-like weapon with a flamer type weapon (Yes i know it glances any vehicle it touches but anyway). Both totally diffrent approaches to totally diffrent problems.

Hmm, that's logical.
Honestly, I had made the assumption that foot/ranged TS just don't operate that well in a CSM list.

Close Range shooting produces the most burst damage they are gonna get.
Due to their inflexibility they do not play the Water Warrior game too well.

In my experiences with Dust Buckets in a rhino with BoC in my Crap Legion days, possessed, lesser deamons, and spawn were outperforming them...so my experiences with them have been less than ideal.

I always found that a mix of BoC and WoC was best myself

I'm not saying WoC is bad. I like both of them on my Tzeentch prince. BoC is just a little heavier, which can be very helpful when you need someone dead :3