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This is the list I'm currently working on:

Iyanden (Eldar) - 1850 pts

Eldrad - 210
Avatar - 155

6 Harlequins incl. Shadowseer, Death Jester w/ kiss x5 - 168
6 Harlequins incl. Shadowseer, Death Jester w/ kiss x5 - 168

10 Wraithguard, Spiritseer w/ conceal - 399
10 Dire Avengers incl. Exarch w/ defense, shimmer shield - 162
10 Guardian Defenders w/ scatter laser - 95

Wraithlord w/ flamer x2, bright lance, missile launcher - 155
Wraithlord w/ flamer x2, bright lance, missile launcher - 155
3 War Walkers w/ scatter laser x2 - 180

Total: 1847 pts.

The tactics is obvious.

How competitive is it?

I would drop one squad of Harlequins for something like Striking Scorpions. Harlequins aren't as good as they used to be. One squad is enough.

Well on theme it fails, since Eldrad isn't from Iyanden and it doesn't have Yriel. Also, the Iyanden populace wouldn't field Guardians, but Harlies may fight since they are seen at times of great strife.

Tactically, it'll get eaten.
- DA outside of a Wave Serpent are next to useless.
- Wraithguard are fun on paper, but fail in play :(
- Harlies really need a full unit as if anything lives off the charge they will take losses fast.

Overall at 1850 you'll be out maneuvered and be hurting with only 3 slow moving troops.

BlueDagger wrote:Well on theme it fails, since Eldrad isn't from Iyanden and it doesn't have Yriel. Also, the Iyanden populace wouldn't field Guardians, but Harlies may fight since they are seen at times of great strife.

Tactically, it'll get eaten.
- DA outside of a Wave Serpent are next to useless.
- Wraithguard are fun on paper, but fail in play :(
- Harlies really need a full unit as if anything lives off the charge they will take losses fast.

Overall at 1850 you'll be out maneuvered and be hurting with only 3 slow moving troops.

I'd imagine Yriel probably hasn't fought in every battle Iyanden has ever been in.

Obviously he can make a Count As Eldrad. There is no list that needs Eldrad like an Iyanden one.

Sure they would field Guardians. You are dealing in absolutes here. Obviously they wouldn't field a bunch, but I don't think mustering up a single unit of Guardians is all that difficult.

10 Wraith guard are excellent. T6 3+ save with an ap2 weapon? Yes please. Give them a Conceal Spiritseer and keep them fortuned that they're dead hard to kill, and fearless. They absolutely destroy MC's, and are also excellent against vehicles. They are also much better than say a Marine Tactical squad in assault.

Possibly dropping a unit of Harlies for Striking Scorpions could work. They would help against gunlines (this armies nemesis) I would also consider storm guardians. Your army will be excellent against MEQ's and TEQ's, but they'll have issues with GEQ's in cover. Taking a squad of Stormies with 2 Flamers and a Spritseer with Destructor is excellent at rooting large numbers of guardsmen/orcs out of cover.

Generall you advance like so:

Harlies <----People will have to get real close to target them, and by that time they're in Wraithcannon range and close to your Wraithlords
Wraithguard: They will get a cover save from the Harlies, and with fortune and T6 they are the most resilient troop unit in the game.
Guardians/Avengers: Once again, they will get cover, can fire through the Wraith screen without loosing effectiveness, and will generally be ignored while still contributing shots.

I would consolidate the Harlies into one squad, and take two fusion pistols in that. Use the extra points to to get some Scorpions perhaps, and stake Stormies instead of the DAs or Guardians or both.

My advice, drop jesters, add another harlie in each squad with kiss. (basically 7 each with kisses and Shadowseer)

I would drop the Avengers in favor of more guardians with another scatter or BL.

Extra points left spent on more guardians, more harlies, or trying to squeeze in some warp spiders.

To answer your questions: As is, it's about a 5/10 on competitiveness in 5th edition which is a compliment considering how hard Iyanden is to do in this edition. I think with some minor changes it's a 7/10. edit: This is all considering you are facing a smart opponent with a nasty list. I think against anything else those ratings are out of the window.

I think the death jesters are a good idea, as the pinning could be useful, and you want all the down range shots you can muster. I don't however, think you need both squads of harlies at this point level. One bigger squad means you're only paying for the shadow seer upgrade once, and can use those saved points for some more scoring warm bodies.

I think an eldar missile launcher would be a better fit for the guardians, you still have the ability to get a lucky anti tank shot, and the scatter dice are more favorable for low BS units.

Iyanden lists have an interesting point of contention when arming thier wraithlords. The list is at some level an MC bash. 3 or 4 monsterous creatures waltzing into combat. When you consider that you're infantry all have 12 inch guns, CC becomes inevitable and you need those MCs to help bail your Wraithguard, Dire Avengers, and guardians out of combat. The wraithsword drastically improves the Wraithlords cc ability, at the expense of one of his anti tank shots. Personally I would run Lance and Sword, on my wraithlords, so that they can still shoot at tanks as you advance your line, and help bail your troops out of combats. Of course you lose out on 2 bs4 missiles... but you save some points and have a bit better cc.

any extra points should prolly go into another missile guardian squad. The more the merrier right?

Well, interesting feedback. Thanx.

The idea with the Harlies was to deploy them at both flanks with the MCs, DA, and WG in the centre.
Eldrad is going to fortune the Harlies, WG or MCs and to guide the WWs.

By the way, a fortuned DA unit with defend and shimmer shield is tough to beat in cc.

I'll consider the suggested changes:
large Harlie unit (saving pts for a 2nd Shadowseer) with 2 fusion pistols (such a unit could pop a transport and then charge the passengers in the same turn; this should never be underestimated),
including a small unit of infiltrating Scorpions or Warp Spiders,
dropping the DA unit for some (Storm) Guardians.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I admit that the list can be 7/10 competitive if optimized.
But I'm tired of playing mech Eldar as my buddies cannot beat it no matter what.

Wuest, I totally understand the need to do something other than what everyone else is doing. I agree the DA unit is awesome in CC. I think the point people were making is that in a ground pounder list there is no guarantee they'll make it into combat without a tank. Even then as you know it's hit or miss. People may shoot them rather than having to deal with Defend/Fortune/Shimmershield.

Zain, well, enemies might shoot the DA unit rather than having to deal with it in cc.
However, it will most likely get a 4+ cover save and walk in the fearless bubble of the Avatar.
So shooting the DAs would be fine.

I've been playing mech-dar and agree that it does get tiring. I am currently working on a triple wraithlord and avatar list (elf-zilla).

For my comments on your list I would def drop one squad of harlies and beef the other one, this would greatly cut points while raising the efficiency of one squad.

For your troops, the WG unit with conceal is nice walking brick. As it will be hard to kill the unit, they may have a chance of getting in to wraithcannon range.
I would give your DA exarch bladestorm. Its cheap, and great if you plan on getting your DAs into CC, which it seems like... bladestorm then rush into assualt with shimmer sheild and you will likely wipe squishy units. Better yet, if you doom that unit, they're done for sure.

I wouldn't take scatter laser with the guardians, you have enough with the walkers. I would drop them completely and take more DAs, better BS and range.

Maybe consider giving one wraithlord a sword and then the guardians another anit-tank weapon (if you keep the guardians). If you take EML, the template will offset their low BS. Also consider giving one walker anit-tank load out in case your wraithlords take a beating, or at least 1 lance/EML and keep the other scatter laser.

I give this list 6/10 competitive rating after optimization.

I do like that you stuck with the fluff nicely pretty closely.

At 1850 i run something like this, its never failed me and its different then what most people play.

From memory its:

Eldrad
Farseer:
-Runes
-2 powers a turn
-Doom
-Fortune

6 Banshees
-champ with MS, CA

10 DA x2
-champ (PW&sheild, defend)
-waveserpent (stones, SC) BARE MIN POINT COST!
2 units of 3 jet bikes held in reserve
5 pathfinders

2 units of 3 dark reapers (champ, tempest with crackshot)
-Falcon (SC, HOLO, stones)

I think i have a unit of fire dragons in there also in a wave serpent.
I play Eldar in this way: I minimize point cost while maximizing effectiveness. My units are not worth anything point wise but i use every bit of them to destroy people. This list has won me tournaments and hasn't lost yet. Been playing Eldar for over 2 years now.

I wouldn't take scatter laser with the guardians, you have enough with the walkers. I would drop them completely and take more DAs, better BS and range.

Dropping the Guardians for more DAs could be an option.
But the army lacks a bit in the anti-tank department.
Guardians with an eml is an option.
The eml is a nasty weapon, even the small blast template.

Zenkaron, I think your list is not optimized.
Your list is balanced with a few tanks.
But 2 or 3 tanks can be taken down early by a shooty opponent.
I play no tanks so that anti-tank weapons like lascannons will eventually be wasted.

its very very rare my tanks die, with a re rollable cover save that is, which 95% of the time they have it. Like I said its from memory, so its not 100% correct.

Well, very shooty armies will eventually pop your tanks early.
But please, do not hijack this thread.

The list is indeed competive. Inq. Malice brought a similar list to the ETC. I had my doubts about the list, but after playtesting against him he showed me the errors of my ways. I'm curious, did you learn of this from his army at the ETC?

The Harlies can be used to also grant cover to the Wraithguard. A rerollable 4+ cover and toughness 6 is nothing to sneeze at. I would definitely give the guardians a missile launcher and I would seriously consider giving the Wraithlords swords. You will fins that people will have to close fast with this army, not because you outshoot them, but because it is so hard to get rid of through shooting. Rerollable cover saves everywhere means most lists will have to clsoe with you and when they do you will needs the swords.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I would also use the points saved in giving swords to the WL's to give the guardians a Warlock with spiritseer. It can be valuable to have that 24" bubble for the WL to operate.

Darth, I didn't learn the list from Malice. It was in my mind for a longer time,
but now between two terms I'll have more time to finalize it.

I'll definitely give the Guardians an eml and as I have two old (metal) WL,
I'll give each a bright lance, a 2nd weapon is not easy to fix.