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Ok so a situation came up if I'm charging a unit into my oponnents flank can he choose to stand and shoot? His gunners had some LOS to my unit and I couldn't find anything about it so I let it happen I'm just wondering if we did this right because it seemed a bit nasty that he could.

If his unit had LoS to your unit, then yes, he could stand and shoot provided he met other requirements to do so.

A Stand and Shoot reaction functions much the same way as shooting in the regular turn sequence would. The only issue would be the distance between the 2 units. If you are less than your Movement characteristic away, then he cannot Stand and Shoot. If he has some LoS and you are further than your M away, he can.

**Edit** Some weapons do not allow a stand and shoot, so make sure he did not have those either. That could affect the Stand and Shoot

AH ok we did it right then, his weapons weren't slow to fire so I guess if he can draw LOS hes good. Makes some units really good IMO.

Hey if Warptime is in effect, does the modified movement value count for this purpoce?

I'm going to offer a different point of view on this.

BRB, Pg.17, Stand and Shoot, Par.4, "If a Stand and Shoot charge reaction is declared, the unit makes a normal, although out of sequence, shooting attack against the charging unit (see the Shooting Phase on page 38 for more details on shooting attacks)."

BRB, Pg.17, Stand and Shoot, Par.5, "...the shooting is resolved normally..."

BRB, Pg.39, Choose A Target, Par.1, "A model can shoot at an unengaged enemy unit that is at least partially within its forward arc, and to which it has an unblocked line of sight. The enemy must also lie within range of the weapon being used."

BRB, Pg.39, Check that the shooter can see the target, Par.1, "...Firstly, the target enemy unit must lie at least partially within the shooting model's forward arc."

I interpret a "normal" shooting attempt to be, you can only shoot a unit that is at least partially in your forward arc. Since the Stand and Shoot charge reaction makes a "normal" shooting action, although out sequence, it would have to follow the "normal" shooting rules, requiring you to have the charging enemy at least partially in your forward arc.

So, I understand this as saying, if your unit gets charged completely in your flank or rear, you cannot declare a Stand and Shoot charge reaction as they are not in your forward arc, which is what is required to shoot.

Just my 2 cents.

Respectfully,
DarkAngelHopeful

How does that interact with the Skaven pivot on the spot when firing thingy with thier weapon teams? The way I looked at it, (Unless I missed something) they could stand and shoot against something in the rear.

I had thought about that DarkAngel, and you are absolutely correct in that the target must lie at least partially within the forward arc. I didn't want to put too much into the argument in the chance it would be confusing, but by leaving out information I did so anyway.

Yes, if the target was completely in your flank, with nothing in your forward arc, and you still somehow had LoS to the target, then you would not get a stand and shoot reaction.

In most cases, what would occur is a flank charge in which part of the charging unit lies in the forward arc of the charged unit. In that case, a Stand and Shoot reaction would be allowed.

So to be completely sure Luthon, we would need to know whether the unit that you charged with had some models in the forward arc of the unit you charged.

Skyth, couple of questions about the team....

Do they have 360 degree LoS?

If they do not, then they would not be able to Stand and Shoot at the flank or rear (unless it specifically says they can) because in order to shoot at something it MUST lie within your front arc.

Now as far as my (limited) understanding of the weapons team... It functions similar to a war machine in that you get a free pivot on YOUR turn to shoot at enemy units. I do not think that would be the case on enemy turns in which you might be charged. Again this is all limited understanding, and there might be a specific rule that the Skaven teams have that allow them to do so, but just having a free pivot would not be enough IMO.

I basically had my unit Diagonally to his, which I had more units facing into his flank allowing me to charge into the flank. His models did have LOS before I charged but what I was wondering if there were situations where if the unit being charged could not perform certain moves like stand and shoot if they were being charged in the flank. There isn't one and the only rule that would keep them from doing so is if they could not make the basic requirement for shooting, which is LOS.

I would say, as was mentioned before, that the restrictions would be what the requirements are for "normal" shooting. Since "normal" shooting requires the unit to be at least in part withing the forward arc, then you wouldn't be able to stand and shoot if you are being charged in your flank or rear entirely.

DarkAngelHopeful

I just read through the Skaven weapon teams. Both the Warpfire thrower and the Ratling gun have the phrase 'is a move or fire weapon, but can pivot on the spot to face the target it intends to shoot'.

Nothing restricts this to the shooting phase for this pivot. From the reading, looks like both can Stand and shoot 360 and pivot to face the target.

The question is, how do you determine flank or rear for final positioning? Looks like you can put a weapon team out there to take charges and put the chargers off at a weird angle.

Nowhere in that sentence does it give permission to ignore the requirements for stand and shoot - just that if you CAN stand and shoot you get to turn and face, meaning you (effectively) allign to them and can pull them off in weird angles.

Additionally the requirements for shooting are that you are partially in the front arc; it is entirely possible (likely with wide units, even) for you to be charging someone in their flank but to still have *some* models in their front arc. If you have ANY models in the front arc you can declare a stand and shoot.

Nothing in the stand and shoot rules requires the target to be in the front arc to declare a stand and shoot reaction.

Part of the normal shooting rules for weapon teams is that they can pivot on the spot to fire at thier intended target.

Thus they can do that in as part of a stand and shoot reaction, even if the target started in thier rear (For instance).

skyth wrote:Nothing in the stand and shoot rules requires the target to be in the front arc to declare a stand and shoot reaction.

Part of the normal shooting rules for weapon teams is that they can pivot on the spot to fire at thier intended target.

Thus they can do that in as part of a stand and shoot reaction, even if the target started in thier rear (For instance).

The BRB says stand and shoot is functions like normal shooting, it's just out of sequence. Normal shooting requires that at least part of the unit is in the forward arc.

Normal shooting for a weapon team involves spinning to face the target.

This may be one that needs to be FAQed.

Yeah. It would be nice for GW to state how they want it to work.