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Hey All,

This is probably a simple question for you, but I seem to be having trouble nailing down a proper specific reference.

The basic question: If I have a Shokk Attack Gun Mek attached to a group of boyz. If the Mek stays still and the boys take off (and are more than 2" away from Mek) does the Mek count as having moved?

I know I read somewhere that if an independent character joins a unit (say, of lootas) and the lootas didn't move, then they can still fire their heavy weapons, even though 'part' of the 'unit' has moved.. to join them. So I'd like to know if the opposite is true, if the unit can bail on the IC and the IC still can fire his heavy weapon, since he didn't move, but the squad that he was part of (during the movement phase) shot, but in his squad for the beginning of the shooting phase - no one has moved (since they ditched him).


Thanks!

Ummmm, bit of a tricky one here. The only reference I can find that is close is; "An independant character can leave a unit during the movement phase by moving out of coherency distance with it" pg 48 rulebook, 4th bullet point. However, this would imply that what you are trying to do is illegal, as the squad left the IC, not the other way round, as the rules state that it is the IC that needs to be doing the moving away, not the squad.

A unit cannot join or leave an IC. Only and IC can do that.

So in your example above, the IC would have to remain in coherency of the boyz, so would have to move. He could only leave the boyz if he moved 2" away.

Brother Ramses wrote:A unit cannot join or leave an IC. Only and IC can do that.

So in your example above, the IC would have to remain in coherency of the boyz, so would have to move. He could only leave the boyz if he moved 2" away.

Ding Ding Ding!

Units cannot move away from IC's to make the IC leave, the IC must move away from the unit.

So to clearly answer your question, he would count as having moved.

Gwar! wrote:

Brother Ramses wrote:A unit cannot join or leave an IC. Only and IC can do that.

So in your example above, the IC would have to remain in coherency of the boyz, so would have to move. He could only leave the boyz if he moved 2" away.

Ding Ding Ding!

Units cannot move away from IC's to make the IC leave, the IC must move away from the unit.

But as you move the entire unit you could move the IC forward 3" and then back 3 to the exact same spot, but since the boyz are 6" forward the IC is out of coherency and where he was to begin with. Of course he moved so he can't shoot.

Yes. That is the whole point. What you cannot do is move the boyz forward 6" then snap off a shot with the SAG.

Gwar! wrote:Yes. That is the whole point. What you cannot do is move the boyz forward 6" then snap off a shot with the SAG.

Which means one should choose carefully what sort of mob, if any, a Big Mek with SAG joins. No different than choosing what mob your Warboss with Powerklaw joins, but for another reason.

Spetulhu wrote:

Gwar! wrote:Yes. That is the whole point. What you cannot do is move the boyz forward 6" then snap off a shot with the SAG.

Which means one should choose carefully what sort of mob, if any, a Big Mek with SAG joins. No different than choosing what mob your Warboss with Powerklaw joins, but for another reason.

Lootas.

Next super easy question please.

I disagree. lootas usually want to be shooting at transports, and SAGs should be shooting at high-save infantry if possible. Big guns work out alright, (as the mek is free to shoot at seperate targets than the artillery) but they slow down the big mek on the turns he does choose to move because artillery can't run. It can be a pain on dawn of war games.

I recommend putting him in with a squad of objective-holding grots, because they're supposed to sit still the whole game, and aren't really doing much on their own. You can also deploy them together in cover if you roll dawn of war.

Do people even field grots? That's a complete waste of points that aren't killing things. And if they aren't killing things then you don't have a proper waaagh!

Wot, you want your boyz to pick up the scraps after the fight? You iz muckin' about!


Grots are there to facilitate looting, and cut down on friendly Ork on Ork casualties while heading to and from battle.

BrockRitcey wrote:Do people even field grots? That's a complete waste of points that aren't killing things. And if they aren't killing things then you don't have a proper waaagh!

You clearly lack META. <Injoke>

Grots are the most essential unit in an ork army.

You take 1 (maybe 2) squads, keep them in reserves and have them come on to take the home objectives. 40 points so the rest of your army can go off killing things? YES PLEASE!

Gwar! wrote:

BrockRitcey wrote:Do people even field grots? That's a complete waste of points that aren't killing things. And if they aren't killing things then you don't have a proper waaagh!

You clearly lack META. <Injoke>

Grots are the most essential unit in an ork army.

You take 1 (maybe 2) squads, keep them in reserves and have them come on to take the home objectives. 40 points so the rest of your army can go off killing things? YES PLEASE!

If a game goes to objectives you're doing it wrong. I haven't played turn 5 in ages because either the other guy is dead or I'm dead, usually the other guy. You could spend that 40 points on another mega-nob who could be off killing much more than 40 points of models.

Erm... What? If an objective game doesn't go to objectives, it is YOU who are doing it wrong.

I think the suggestion was that playing to table your opponent (Dashs main game, from what I've seen) means either you are dead after X turns, or your opponent is. Then you automatically win / lose, regardless of objectives

Yeah, but Dash also uses a unit of Grots to hold down an objective while he attempts to wipe out his opponent, because it doesn't always happen that way.

Not that I'd ever play this (And there might be a Faq about this) but:
The SAG is an Ordnance Weapon. Ordnance weapons do not say that infantry can't move and fire them . . .

From memory theSAG itself says this

The shock attack gun tells you it's treated as heavy for the purposes of movement and assault.

The SAG has a special rule allowing it to fire at all, since non-vehicles cannot even fire ordnance (there was a daemon with that problem for a LONG time).

Just for personal clarifications.
Why exactly is the SAG able to shoot at a different target than Big Gunz if its attached to them?

Daggermaw wrote:Just for personal clarifications.
Why exactly is the SAG able to shoot at a different target than Big Gunz if its attached to them?

It isn't?

I am confused, why do you think it can fire at a different unit?

Gwar! wrote:

Daggermaw wrote:Just for personal clarifications.
Why exactly is the SAG able to shoot at a different target than Big Gunz if its attached to them?

It isn't?

I am confused, why do you think it can fire at a different unit?

P55 BRB, Artillery:

The crewmen firing the guns
may not fire any weapons they are carrying, while the
other crew members (and any independent character
that joined the unit) are free to fire their side arms, and
can even shoot against a different unit than the one
targeted by the unit’s guns.

Well herp derp derpy derp!

Learn something new every day.

That being said, I have not used Artillery EVER and never played against one! D:

So, there we go. Page 55 is the reason why!

Wow more responses than I thought I'd get, thanks everyone!

The whole movement question was because I was playing with grots and a SAG the other day (for the reasons GWAR said.. to hunker down and hold an objective). The goal was to not leave my SAG out in the open, by himself, so he could get one-shotted by a str 8+ weapon. When my opponent landed his drop pod with Calgar in front of me, I toyed with the idea of throwing the grots away, and separating them from the SAG so he could get in an extra turn or two of shooting while he mashed up all my stuff. We agreed that if they left him, he wouldn't be able to shoot (partially because the SAG rolled double 6's on turn 1 so I was cool either way).

Glad we came to the right conclusion, even though we had no idea why


GWAR (or anyone) if you're still reading this, I have played with the artillery grots and a SAG before, and I assume that if the big gunz die, but the grots stick around - they do NOT score, even though they are grots.. because they are a heavy support choice? That's how we play, but I wonder if someone could chime in and confirm that for me. Thanks!

magoud wrote:GWAR (or anyone) if you're still reading this, I have played with the artillery grots and a SAG before, and I assume that if the big gunz die, but the grots stick around - they do NOT score, even though they are grots.. because they are a heavy support choice? That's how we play, but I wonder if someone could chime in and confirm that for me. Thanks!

You are indeed correct on this point.

Yup they are from an HS slot so they are HS.

BrockRitcey wrote:Do people even field grots? That's a complete waste of points that aren't killing things. And if they aren't killing things then you don't have a proper waaagh!

Mine have killed two deamon Princes, a BA Libby, a Hive tyrant, and a bloodthirster.... that I can recall...

ChrisCP wrote:

BrockRitcey wrote:Do people even field grots? That's a complete waste of points that aren't killing things. And if they aren't killing things then you don't have a proper waaagh!

Mine have killed two deamon Princes, a BA Libby, a Hive tyrant, and a bloodthirster.... that I can recall...

This right here pretty much sums up Orks in general, but applies to Grots regardless.

With enough attacks, you can do anything!