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Edit in red

So I've been puzzling out what to pick up for DE if I wanted to start an army, and here's what I've come up with as a list. I'm not 100% on building it, but It's very very tempting. I always liked Eldar and the new DE figures are just too sexy to pass up.

Best news is, with the exception of one proxy, all the figures I'd need come out with Wave 1!

1. Duke Sliscus (I have a ton of DS Raiders, and this dude SAVED me about 100 points on this list, plus he's better than the Archon I was building. No picture of him in the Codex, so I'm going to proxy him using the metal Archon, with a bare plastic head and a bit of converting for his Venom sword.)
- 9 Trueborn in a Raider with Flickerfield. Trueborn Armed with 2 Splinter Cannons, 6 Carbines, and 1 Dracon w/ Agoniser

2. Haemonculi w/ liquifier gun and scissorhand (Moved to Wyches Squad)
- 6 Trueborn in a Raider with Flickerfield. Trueborn Armed with 4 Blasters, 2 Dark Lances, and 1 Dracon w/ Agoniser
- 9 Trueborn in a Raider with Flickerfield. Trueborn Armed with 4 Blasters, and 1 Dracon w/ Agoniser

3. Haemonculi w/ liquifier gun and scissorhand (Moved to Wyches Squad)
- 6 Trueborn in a Raider with Flickerfield. Trueborn Armed with 4 Blasters, 2 Dark Lances, and 1 Dracon w/ Agoniser
- 9 Trueborn in a Raider with Flickerfield. Trueborn Armed with 4 Blasters, and 1 Dracon w/ Agoniser

4. 10 (9) Wyches in Raider with Flickerfield. 2 (1) Hydra Gauntlets, Hekatrix with Agoniser (Now joined by the Haemonculus)

5. 10 (9) Wyches in Raider with Flickerfield. 2 (1) Hydra Gauntlets, Hekatrix with Agoniser (Now joined by the Haemonculus)

6. 6 Reavers with 2 Grav-talons, 2 Heatlances

7, 8, and 9. Ravager (3 total) with triple dark lances and flickerfields

Also, looked at points, and I don't have enough for Nightshields. So it'll either be those OR flickershields. We'll see. I might even need to cool it on some other things too.

Total: 1988pts. 2000pts on the nose. So I still have a smidgen of wiggle room. C&C are, of course, welcome. One of my big questions: should Sliscus have a Haemonculi with him? that does make him FNP right out of the gate...

Would also love to tweak it a tiny bit and replace one of the Ravagers with a Voidraven once it's released.

Those smaller tank hunting Trueborn units would probably be better off in a Venom imo. I would definitely stick with assault weapons so you can stay mobile and shoot out of the vehicle, the Dark Lances force you to stay still which for DE isn't usually a good plan.
The Haemonculi would probably be better attached to the Wyches imo, you don't get enough out of them with those Trueborn units as the squad is smaller and primarily shooting based.

2 x 3 Reavers with Heat Lances is probably better than a single larger unit imo.

Nightshields could definitely be helpful for some of your fire support vehicles, notably the Ravagers. For a unit which is going to be hanging back they are just as good if not better than the Flickerfield.

I wouldn't hold your breath on getting a Void Raven any time soon. Most likely people are going to use the Forgeworld Eldar Phoenix models as a base.

you have 3 HQ

3 HQ is fine as you can take up to 3 Haemonculi as a single HQ choice.

The concern I have is how tooled up the Trueborn squads are. Each casualty is going to cost you 25 points worth of Deadeldar apiece. Also, there's less synergy than you might think. The DL/Blaster squads will either be out of range for the Blasters to fire, or moving preventing the DL from firing. I think the squads would be best served without the DL and with a couple more ablative bodies. That way, you can have the squad always moving around and firing, including the Raider's DL.

Saldiven wrote:3 HQ is fine as you can take up to 3 Haemonculi as a single HQ choice.

The concern I have is how tooled up the Trueborn squads are. Each casualty is going to cost you 25 points worth of Deadeldar apiece. Also, there's less synergy than you might think. The DL/Blaster squads will either be out of range for the Blasters to fire, or moving preventing the DL from firing. I think the squads would be best served without the DL and with a couple more ablative bodies. That way, you can have the squad always moving around and firing, including the Raider's DL.

Yeah, this was something else I was considering, but it's nice to hear it echoed from someone else. Would you use the extra points to give the Dracon a Blaster Pistol? Or, once again, is the range issue not worth it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Powerguy wrote:Those smaller tank hunting Trueborn units would probably be better off in a Venom imo. I would definitely stick with assault weapons so you can stay mobile and shoot out of the vehicle, the Dark Lances force you to stay still which for DE isn't usually a good plan.
The Haemonculi would probably be better attached to the Wyches imo, you don't get enough out of them with those Trueborn units as the squad is smaller and primarily shooting based.

2 x 3 Reavers with Heat Lances is probably better than a single larger unit imo.

Nightshields could definitely be helpful for some of your fire support vehicles, notably the Ravagers. For a unit which is going to be hanging back they are just as good if not better than the Flickerfield.

I wouldn't hold your breath on getting a Void Raven any time soon. Most likely people are going to use the Forgeworld Eldar Phoenix models as a base.

Ah, I'll take a look at the Nightshields. Thanks.

Also, do you think the Haemonculi is worth losing the second Hydra Gauntlet? Because then I wouldn't have 10 wyches... Just curious.


EDIT: Changed the first post. Edit's in red.

So duke sliscus doesnt count as an HQ choice?

I disagree on the Nightshields on Ravagers... I tend to find that very few things that can hurt the AV11 have less than 48" range, which means you are already too close if they can hit you. They have some use, but I still think more often than not you'll find things like lascannons and missile launchers which will hit anyways will be the things coming for you...

Nulipuli2 wrote:So duke sliscus doesnt count as an HQ choice?

No, 1-3 Haemonculi is ONE HQ.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

RIGHT-Titan wrote:I disagree on the Nightshields on Ravagers... I tend to find that very few things that can hurt the AV11 have less than 48" range, which means you are already too close if they can hit you. They have some use, but I still think more often than not you'll find things like lascannons and missile launchers which will hit anyways will be the things coming for you...

Well, it's 30 points, but that's not the end of the world. I'll play with it a bit and test.

List

If anyone wants to read it fresh.

1. Duke Sliscus (I have a ton of DS Raiders, and this dude SAVED me about 100 points on this list, plus he's better than the Archon I was building. No picture of him in the Codex, so I'm going to proxy him using the metal Archon, with a bare plastic head and a bit of converting for his Venom sword.)
- 9 Trueborn in a Raider with Flickerfield. Trueborn Armed with 2 Splinter Cannons, 6 Carbines, and 1 Dracon w/ Agoniser

2. 9 Trueborn in a Raider with Flickerfield. Trueborn Armed with 4 Blasters, and 1 Dracon w/ Agoniser

3. 9 Trueborn in a Raider with Flickerfield. Trueborn Armed with 4 Blasters, and 1 Dracon w/ Agoniser

4. Haemonculi w/ liquifier gun and scissorhand
- 9 Wyches in Raider with Flickerfield. 1 Hydra Gauntlets, Hekatrix with Agoniser

5. Haemonculi w/ liquifier gun and scissorhand
-9 Wyches in Raider with Flickerfield. 1 Hydra Gauntlets, Hekatrix with Agoniser

6. 6 Reavers with 2 Grav-talons, 2 Heatlances

7, 8, and 9. Ravager (3 total) with triple dark lances and flickerfields

Total: 2000pts

One thing to consider too would be the animus vitae. Good way to generate pain tokens with a scissor hand.

can anyone do the math, if not here it is:

Duke Sliscus- 1 HQ

2 Haemonculus- 1 HQ

3 Haemonculus- 1 Hq


WAAAIT A MOMENT ISNT THAT 3? IT IS!!!! 1+1+1= 3 omg im a math genius lol

Ok, Nul, I'm about to be a little blunt and less than nice, because this has been stated twice already.

For ONE SINGLE HQ SELECTION you may take UP TO THREE DIFFERENT HAEMONCULI.

1 Haemonculus + 1 Haemonculus + 1 Haemonculus = 1 HQ selection.

Therefore, Duke Sliscus + (1 Haemonculus + 1 Haemonculus) = 2 HQ choices.

So, no, you're not a math genius at all.

Nulipuli2 wrote:



can anyone do the math, if not here it is:

Duke Sliscus- 1 HQ

2 Haemonculus- 1 HQ

3 Haemonculus- 1 Hq


WAAAIT A MOMENT ISNT THAT 3? IT IS!!!! 1+1+1= 3 omg im a math genius lol

No, 1-3 Haemonculi is ONE HQ.

I always said reading was over-rated.

If I were you I would cut a squad of trueborn or the duke and add another troop you got 2 troops in paper thin armour and tank. Also give your reaver caltrops. I was not a believe in them but after testing it a few times you can nail anything with 15-20 wounds easy first turn they are worth that alone. Also for your Haemoncs if you want comabt guys i like them to ahve a power weapon or Agonizer with the item that gives a pain token everytime they kill something. It just seems like a steal if your are expecting them to see CC.

You need more troops. Two units of Wyches, even if they have FNP are just not enough to make sure you have things alive by turn 5. Sure in combat they have a 4++,4+FNP but outside a quick (dont even need to be lucky) lascannon or missile launcher and then rapid firing bolters will quickly make those Wyches useless, and maybe even make them dissapear.

The two units of blaster trueborn and the three Ravagers are overkill for Anti-Tank. I suggest take down one ravager to begin with, and then on the Trueborn take them down to 5 models with 4 blasters. Thats it. You honestly dont need any more. Put them in a venom, and call it a day. This will save you a total of 251 points. Enough for another troop of choice or maybe you could squeeze in two depending on the configuration.

As a quick note, on the Duke's squad think of swapping 4 of those Carbines for Shredders. Its only a 12" range, but its a Small Blast S6 AP-, great for handling hordes which is something your list seems to lack.

Yeah, more troops would certainly be a good idea. Perhaps two squads of wracks in exchange for one of the trueborn tank hunter squads (or a ravager, and cut down the tank hunter squads). Warriors with Splinter Cannons might also work, I am still not 100% on their full profile, but I know they get a solid amount of shots. Shredders are a good idea too, like zeek mentioned. I don't know where they fit in though. Other then those few issues, I like the list and I like the Duke.

Lots of good stuff! Thanks guys!

I think at this point, it's coming down to PROXYING time!

Anyone still have that old "how to convert a Venom" link?

I didnt know that Duke sliscus was a haemonculus. I should read through the codex again

Nulipuli2 wrote:I didnt know that Duke sliscus was a haemonculus. I should read through the codex again

Sliscus is not a haemonculus. You've misread the original army list. He is not including Sliscus, then 2 haem. , then 3 haem. He is including Sliscus (#1) haemonculus (#2) and haemonculus (#3) for a total of 3 HQ models, 2 of which are haemonculi.

I don't have much to say about the army list, I just wanted to clear that up. I'm not sure if trueborn are really worth the points to field in big units. I'd take 1-2 minimum units to blast vehicles, and then fill troop slots with raiders+wyches and warriors before building up their units.

This army list was to unclear and disorganized for me to understand it correctly. I now see that you have 2 Hq choices.

Nulipuli2 wrote:This army list was to unclear and disorganized for me to understand it correctly. I now see that you have 2 Hq choices.

Well, actually the 1.
2.
3.
sort of format seems fairly clear (although unecessary) to me. Not trying to be a dick about it, just one of those funny little internet misunderstandings.

I-bounty-hunt-the-elderly wrote:

Nulipuli2 wrote:This army list was to unclear and disorganized for me to understand it correctly. I now see that you have 2 Hq choices.

Well, actually the 1.
2.
3.
sort of format seems fairly clear (although unecessary) to me. Not trying to be a dick about it, just one of those funny little internet misunderstandings.

I thought it was saying duke, 2 haemonculus and 3 haemonculus, and that made me

i geuss i had a brain fart there.

I like your Reaver choice... but I would very strongly recommend trying to replace the Grav-Talons with Cluster Caltrops. Pinning is good, but D6 S6 hits?? Yes Please.

Wounds on 2 in most cases...

RIGHT-Titan wrote:I like your Reaver choice... but I would very strongly recommend trying to replace the Grav-Talons with Cluster Caltrops. Pinning is good, but D6 S6 hits?? Yes Please.

Wounds on 2 in most cases...

lol, You're not alone in that. I do SO love pinning though... Maybe I'll save it for IG armies.

Also, can GW PLEASE release the Venom ASAP? Must have now.

If they don't try using a Eldar Vyper to convert one with Raider part mixed seems like a really good base!

I took a look at your list again, and put together this one. My group plays at 1850, so this is what I built... It's a more CC focused list... wracks with furious charge and fnp should rock socks... but my old list had a ton of regular warriors with splinter cannons and shredders.. so I'm not sure it's an improvement or not. :-/

It's similar but with a little spin.

Tell me what you think:

HQ:

Baron Sathonyx
Haemonculus with Venom Blade with Animus Vitae
Haemonculus with Venom Blade and Liquifier

TROOPS:

9x Wracks; Liquifier, Acolyte with Agonizer (Haemonculus goes here)
Raider; Aether Sails, Dark Lance

9x Wracks; Liquifier, Acolyte with Agonizer (Haemonculus goes here)
Raider; Aether Sails, Dark Lance

7x Wyches; Haywire Grenades
Raider; Aether Sails, Dark Lance

9x Hellions

ELITES:

4x Kabalite Trueborn; 2x Splinter Cannons
Venom; 2x Splinter Cannons

4x Kabalite Trueborn; 2x Splinter Cannons
Venom; 2x Splinter Cannons

4x Kabalite Trueborn; 2x Splinter Cannons
Venom; 2x Splinter Cannons

FAST ATTACK:

6x Reaver Jetbikes; 2x Heat Lance, 2x Cluster Caltrops

HEAVY SUPPORT:

Ravager; 3x Dark Lance, Flickerfields
Ravager; 3x Dark Lance, Flickerfields
Ravager; 3x Dark Lance, Enhanced Aether Sails (short on points for a third flickerfield, and hopefully no one expects surprise end game raider jetting to their objective to contest)

----

My old list had no wracks, 1 Haemi with a unit of Grotesques and 40 warriors in 4 raiders all with sails and splinter cannons and shredders. No Jetbikes either though... which admittedly withough playing I've fallen in love with.

I got to assemble 2 of them last night.. quarter chub.

Um, are the wyches walking?

I would have to agree, that your list need to be redone. Dark Eldar requires troops and some elite to give them support. the object of Dark Eldar is to move and shoot, Nightshield is a waste of points, your going to be in range pretty much everything.

Woops.. forgot to write in the raider for the wyches... they do have one my bad.

I understand the OP's appreciation of Trueborn, and I wrote a list very similar to his, just to keep it simple it looks a little like this...

HQ:
-Duke
-Haem
-Haem

Elites:
9 Trueborn-Raider

Troops:
10 Warriors -Raider
10 Warriors -Raider
10 Warriors -Raider
9 Wyches(with Haem) - Raider
9 Whyches (with Haem) - Raider

Fast:
9 Reavers - 3 lances, 2 caltrops
Heavy:
x3 Ravagers

This list came out under 2000pts and has a much higher model count...its still not perfect but it works with the stuff coming out in November and it seems pretty balanced.