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So I've been reading different posts on how 5th ed. is wrecking necrons and well while would have to agree to a certain extent, I believe that we (necron players) could justify some aspects that could improve them by rules of fith ed.

The main thing that i came across (and the only one I can remember right now) has to do with the toughness of the necron destroyers and heavy destroyers. In thier profile, it says that they are T5. It also says that they get +1 toughness for being a jet bike. So since in thier profile it is not written as T4 (5) could we justify that they are T5 (6)?

I have also considered the thought that they are supposed to be warriors on mounts, but after reading through the description I found out that they are really immortals on skimmers which are T5.

What do you think?

I'm also sorry if I'm breaking any rules, I wasn't sure of how to really write this out...

they're not t 4(5) they are just T5 same as thunder Cav

Yea, calvolry (to my knowledge) don't get +1 toughness. really under all the fith ed codexes jet bikes are listed as TX (X), so why not take advantage of that an justify that destroyers are T5 (6)? after all if fith ed can make some of thier rules suck, then why can't they make some of thier rules good?

Also nowere in thier profile does it say "included in profile"

You may want to look a little more closly at your book; Destroyers, heavy Destroyers, and lords with Destroyer bodies are not jetbikes.

They count as jetbikes for movement purposes.

Also note that the Destroyer body for a lord is not a modified toughness(explicitly states so in the Codex). While it does "modify" the toughness value it explicitly states that Str 10 weapons/attacks do not ID him.

Nice call Kel, forgot about the lord

But under jetbikes in thier profile it says they get +1 toughness and does not say included in profile


Automatically Appended Next Post:
you are right on the lord though...

zane2131 wrote:But under jetbikes in thier profile it says they get +1 toughness and does not say included in profile

No, the Necron codex does not say in their profile that they get +1 toughness. My copy of the codex @2002, Second Printing says that you're mistaken.

And see the statement above which points out that they ARE NOT jetbikes, but merely move like jetbikes. See also page 20 of the Necron codex which does not say that they are Jetbikes, but merely states that they "count as jetbikes for movement purposes."

That may be but you are told they are not jet bikes, they merely count as such for movement; thus no Toughness boost.

Ask yourself this in the BRB is the T boost listed in the movement rules for jetbikes? the answer of course is no.

Basically you only use the 3 bullet points for Jetbikes with Destroyers et al; you do not gain relentless(although Destroyers and heavy destroyers can move and Fire heavies, but not assault), and they Can run.

solkan wrote:

zane2131 wrote:But under jetbikes in thier profile it says they get +1 toughness and does not say included in profile

No, the Necron codex does not say in their profile that they get +1 toughness. My copy of the codex @2002, Second Printing says that you're mistaken.

"

Huh, i looked again and it appears you are right..., i could have sworn that I saw it in there. ah well my apologies

Thanks for clearifing that actually

Yeah, it specifically lists their T as 5 in their entry, not 4(5), so that alone would cover you.

I agree with all here... It is simple T5... Check out description, and you'll see that it even says that lord as a result can't be instant killed by S10!

zane2131 wrote:So I've been reading different posts on how 5th ed. is wrecking necrons and well while would have to agree to a certain extent, I believe that we (necron players) could justify some aspects that could improve them by rules of fith ed.

The main thing that i came across (and the only one I can remember right now) has to do with the toughness of the necron destroyers and heavy destroyers. In thier profile, it says that they are T5. It also says that they get +1 toughness for being a jet bike. So since in thier profile it is not written as T4 (5) could we justify that they are T5 (6)?

I have also considered the thought that they are supposed to be warriors on mounts, but after reading through the description I found out that they are really immortals on skimmers which are T5.

What do you think?

I'm also sorry if I'm breaking any rules, I wasn't sure of how to really write this out...

Here is the thing about this, and yes I understand it is just fluff text but it actually makes sense in this instance. In the destroyer entry it states that they are warriors fused to skimmer bodies. So, warriors are T4. Going by the rule of the jetbike body for the lord which ups his toughness (by 1) to T6 (as has been stated already in the thread) the same principle is applied to the destroyers here as they are both just warriors fused to the body which would account for their T5 yet all other stats being exactly the same.

I still just don't get how a unit can have the actual jetbike rule (not some other rule that acts like jetbike), theoretically have the jetbike toughness bump, and all the other benefits and drawbacks of being a jetbike, but still not be a jetbike. It's just ludicrous to me.

It's due to ancient rules that were there when cron dex came out... Biggest mistake you can do is to try to find logic in cron dex... I mean, nightbringer is not immune to instant death??!! A big bad lord of death, a old terrifying essence of ancient power, and can be killed by things like force weapon!!!!

EVERYONE could be killed by a force weapon in 3rd / 4th, as they simply "slay outright" - eternal warrior, as the 4th ed Eldar Codex debuted, was no protection.

Of course C'Tan have the fact that only 1 force weapon in the game, at the time, could hurt them - GK GM. Now you have Mephiston and ANY epistolary class that casts Sanguine Sword, but it still isnt many.

It's not just that... Add tyranid boneswords and so on... Really sad:p

I was only talking about Force Weapons, as that was the initial posters concern.

In 3rd, when both codexes were written, there were very few "cause instant death" items for the Ctan to have need protection from.

Yeah, i know... i just commented how unfluffy cron rules are... Because of changes...

40 Million years of Slumber doesn't kill them. 10 Years of no codex update slaughters them.

Azure wrote:40 Million years of Slumber doesn't kill them. 10 Years of no codex update slaughters them.

True, but from what has been floating around the rumor mill even the update isn't going to be that great as they might not be allowed in normal 40k anymore. Soooo, the pen truly is mightier than the star god.

Well, I'll gladly exchange nightbringer for other cool things... But imo, if they drop c'tan, what special characters could they possibly add? Crons are all the same by fluff, so it would be quite difficult to just send them to apoc... And there is no 5th edition dex without special characters...

Crons are NOT all the same - the Lords all retain some individuality, hence they are able to lead. There is no reason you couldnt have notable lords, or lords specialised in certain areas such as resurrecting models, etc.

Kevin949 wrote:
*snip*
... as they might not be allowed in normal 40k anymore.

Source?

dif. lords was "programmed" for dif. things) soo they are not really the same..

Not at all - they retained some consciousness and sentience through resurrections, and are held in superior forms of stasis so their consciousness does not deteriorate further.

They are still individuals. Necrons arent programmed, just the remnant consciousness of the original race.

Tragic beings!

By Apocalypse they are pretty much "programmed" and come as various cells\priorities with dif. roles for each lord.

Cryage wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:
*snip*
... as they might not be allowed in normal 40k anymore.

Source?

As I said, rumor mill. Search around the news & rumors forums in here and you'll see that there is a lot of talk from people stating that c'tan are going apoc only. I never said it was a fact or anything of the sort so I have no "official" source.

pretty much there will be two dif. Lords) one with somekind of DS ability and one who will resurrect\fix broken bodies)

The only person I've seen posting Necron rumors recently is Stickmonkey and he's not exactly reliable.

MasterSlowPoke wrote:The only person I've seen posting Necron rumors recently is Stickmonkey and he's not exactly reliable.

Well I've also heard about it in person while at my FLGS in the past. Again, salt taken with. But the possibility of it happening or the c'tan getting the nerf bat for normal games makes me cringe.

I don't trust anything that has leaked out... We'll see what happens