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I just got the cygnar battle group, i want to do an army around the gun mages(black 13th, squads) as well as other things, could you give some suggestions, please give a mix, so if you see one person has replied, feel free to make another suggestion.
Delrohir

gun mages and the black 13th? well epic caine gives gun mages gunfighter, which means they can hang a bit better in combat.

eCaine lists can really mop up infantry, so bringing some heavy hitters is a good option unless your aiming at an assassination list.

so, shall i add n some hard hitters and the black 13th + gun mages?

If your looking to stick with what you have. Stryker can give the gunmages snipe which is pretty nice. Also his earthquake spell can them really allow for LOS directly at the caster. So that's a combo right there. Turn 1, snipe the gunmages, turn 2 earthquake whatever your opponent has in front of the caster and just fire away with the mages, with +4 range they should be able to move and shoot the caster most games on turn 2.

However, as someone pointed out. If you want to build around Gunmages, you really want to use Caine. He's a 1 man army, so you'll need to jack marshall or junior some jacks to free up his focus. Then with Caine has freedom to run and gun, and fire away. A Journeyman warcaster is nice to have with a Defender, as they like to hang back and shoot, it also can help with the Charger, as they are very focus efficent. The Lancer won't get a lot of love from Caine, but Styker's Earthquake Arc'd through it, keeps Stryker out of threat range.

Also the gunmage officer attachment is a reasonably good jack marshal. Give him a hunter or defender and he can buff their shooting game.

Epic Caine also makes the regular AGTM's have gunfighter so you can use the special bullets in combat.

I haven't checked this post in age so sorry about that, I have come up with my list ad bought it all.
Stryker,
Ironclad,
lancer,
charger,
cyclone,
squire,

black 13th gun mage strike team,
sword knights,(leader+6 grunts))

This amounts to 35 pts, sorry to redirect you but I wont be posting pictures of my models here, so if you want to see my army developre, go to da 'uge project. a model a day in the D&M forum or just follow the link in my signature.
Delrohir.

I hate to say it but... your 'jacks are going to be starving on that list.

The Charger pretty much demands 3 focus per round once it engages.

The only 'caster that can really make use of Cyclones is Kraye with Guided Fire. Otherwise it's just too much focus to make it accurate and powerful. I'm afraid your Cyclone is going to be reduced to a two hand tosser once the armies actually engage. And once it looses an arm... well it's a speed bump.

I like my Ironclads loaded up when they engage to guarantee a kill before they get trashed, so at least 2 focus for the charge round.

Keep the Sword Knights close to your Lancer and send 'em all in after an Earthquake to clean house. Just make sure to send the Lancer in first to get the flanking bonus.

Gr3y wrote:I hate to say it but... your 'jacks are going to be starving on that list.

The Charger pretty much demands 3 focus per round once it engages.

While in general I'd agree that he i going to be focus starved, I'd disagree with some of the statements. The charger doesn't really need 3 focus per turn. He is just as happy with 1 for a single double boosted pow 12 -- that kills solos quite nicely.

Gr3y wrote:
The only 'caster that can really make use of Cyclones is Kraye with Guided Fire. Otherwise it's just too much focus to make it accurate and powerful. I'm afraid your Cyclone is going to be reduced to a two hand tosser once the armies actually engage. And once it looses an arm... well it's a speed bump.

The real use of the cyclone isn't really firing the guns at all. Covering fire completely shuts down enemy infantry from getting through your lines allowing you to focus your ranged attacks on enemy heavies.

Endgame wrote:
While in general I'd agree that he i going to be focus starved, I'd disagree with some of the statements. The charger doesn't really need 3 focus per turn. He is just as happy with 1 for a single double boosted pow 12 -- that kills solos quite nicely.

You could do that. But if you're only getting one shot out of it why take the charger? For a point more you could roll with a Hunter which brings more to the table if you can only hand out one focus. Or two GMCA who will hunt down solos even better for the same price? Or a variety of Merc options. If you aren't going to make full use of that ROF 2 (which is sick btw, I'm not knocking the 'jack at all) those are points that could get you more.

Endgame wrote:
The real use of the cyclone isn't really firing the guns at all. Covering fire completely shuts down enemy infantry from getting through your lines allowing you to focus your ranged attacks on enemy heavies.

Again, for the same price you could run either Long Gunners, ATGM or Trenchers + their UA. All of which bring an anti-infantry option to the table as well as additional flexibility.

Gr3y wrote:

Endgame wrote:
While in general I'd agree that he i going to be focus starved, I'd disagree with some of the statements. The charger doesn't really need 3 focus per turn. He is just as happy with 1 for a single double boosted pow 12 -- that kills solos quite nicely.

You could do that. But if you're only getting one shot out of it why take the charger? For a point more you could roll with a Hunter which brings more to the table if you can only hand out one focus. Or two GMCA who will hunt down solos even better for the same price? Or a variety of Merc options. If you aren't going to make full use of that ROF 2 (which is sick btw, I'm not knocking the 'jack at all) those are points that could get you more.

The Charger is flexible, and it doesn't always need 3 focus to do its job, that is all (its also 2 points cheaper than a hunter). Shooting at lowish def and med arm (Knights Exemplar?) or something with mark target and med to low arm? 1 focus will let you get 2 shots, no need to boost damage. Just going to pick off a solo? Drop 1 powerful shot on its head. Sure there are turns that where you'll have a caster in range and want to give it 3 focus, but as a general rule I'm not planning on dropping 3 focus on a charger every turn.

A prime example is with Siege -- I like to run siege with 2 Chargers. Allocate 1 focus to each charger, pop feat. Siege may have to cast mage sight or fox hole (2 focus), and then boosts attack and damage on his rocket cannon (or use reload with Reinholdt for 2 shots if you don't need to cast either spell). You're really looking for big returns on a single shot -- you'll get that with 1 focus on a charger, and you'll get 2 chargers for fewer points than a single defender.

Gr3y wrote:

Endgame wrote:
The real use of the cyclone isn't really firing the guns at all. Covering fire completely shuts down enemy infantry from getting through your lines allowing you to focus your ranged attacks on enemy heavies.

Again, for the same price you could run either Long Gunners, ATGM or Trenchers + their UA. All of which bring an anti-infantry option to the table as well as additional flexibility.

But those options have their own problems in regards to taking blast damage and in threat range. Shutting down a portion of the field to infantry with a pair of pow 12 templates can be much better than potentially killing them with other models. For example, you want to setup a charge with your storm blades, but you may have to risk getting charged by Doom Reavers or Iron Fang Pikemen at the edge of their threat range. Gun Mages may not have the back field threat range to actually target the enemy models, but a pair of covering fire templates in front of your storm blades will guarentee they won't get charged by anything less than arm 18.

Another use for the Cyclone is put it on the Dude and really let it do board control with Thunderbolts. Even more of a bonus if you get a couple knockdowns there.

I do something different with my chargers at times. Two focus and use one for Powerful Attack and buy a second regular shot.

To the OP, I would move the Ironclad off of pStryker and put it on the Knights. They can marshal it and get the bonus for Flank from it. Lightens up some of the focus load from Stryker which is still pretty stiff even with the Squire.

coolio!

I have taken into consideration all these points, and here is my revised list.
Stryker,
lancer,
charger,
ironclad,
cylone,
squire.

Black 13th,
storm lances.

I am thinking of dropping a warjack for a unit of storm blades, what do you think?

I don't really get the list. The Cyclone is a denial jack. The Ironclad is a good all around, but your not really going to have focus to make use of the lancer consistently. The Charger i'd use to target solo's. With the jack's your using, you could get a lot of milege out of Darius. Full Throttle would really help you if you get bogged down. And the opponent would then have to focus killing 1 jack at a time with your feat. Just some thought.

If you stick with the present list, consider getting a Journeyman WC in the list to Arcane Shield the Knights. Having the option for 2 Arcane Shields is pretty nice. Dealing with an Armor 21 Ironclad is not fun for infantry.

I've just had a thought, drop the lancer and take a unit of storm blades, then I have 2 shooty warjack, one heavy warjack for combat, cavalry and infintary. Arc node the iron clad with earthquak on a big block of the enemy, then charge storm blades, storm knights and iron clad into the fray, then boost some thing with an arcane shield.
Just a thought.

You don't have an Arc Node on the Ironclad. pStyrker likes having an Arc Node because it allows him to hang back and let his troops do the wetwork for him.

I would say if you really wanted two shooty 'jacks I would swap the Cyclone for a Defender. You lose the area denial, but gain range and some respectable melee for when the enemy closes.

Also pick what you want to shield early and just upkeep it. It'll save you a focus later in the game.

I have changed it yet again, drop the charger and sword knights for storm lances and strom blades, so I bring the lancer in, arcx node the earthquake, kill a unit with the black 13th(brutal damage), then mop up a warjack with the lancer and kill anyting that is still moving with the storm lances and storm blades.

What do you think?

You may as well get epic Stryker and a Stormclad to run that. He's the goto guy if you want to run heavy stormnouns. Make sure you get the UA for the blades so they get the assault shots on the turn they charge in.

If you're going to be running either Stryker alot, go ahead and get Rowdy to go with him.

12thRonin wrote:If you're going to be playing Cygnar alot, go ahead and get Rowdy.

Figure I'd just fix that a bit for you.

True that.