1500 Point [Tau]

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**QuietOrkmi**

Tau 1500
Hq:
1 Shas’el: Cyclic Ion Blaster, Plasma Rifle, Vectored Retro-Thrusters, Stimulant Injector

Elite:
3 Crisis Suits: Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Multi-Tracker. Shas’ui: Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Flamer, Hard Wired Multi-Tracker, Hard Wired Drone Controller, 2 Shield Drones

3 Crisis Suits: Missile Pod, Burst Cannons, Multi-Tracker. Shas’ui: Missile Pod, Burst Cannons, Multi-Tracker, Hard Wired Drone Controller, 2 Shield Drones

1 Crisis Suits: Twin-Linked Fusion Blaster, Targeting Array

Troop:
6 Fire Warriors: Pulse Rifle
Devilfish: Smart Missile System, Disruption Pod, Muti-Tracker, Targeting Array

6 Fire Warriors: Pulse Rifle
Devilfish: Smart Missile System, Disruption Pod, Muti-Tracker, Targeting Array

Fast Attack:
4 Pathfinders: Pulse Carbines, Marker-light
Devilfish: Smart Missile System, Disruption Pod, Muti-Tracker, Targeting Array

4 Pathfinders: Pulse Carbines, Marker-light
Devilfish: Smart Missile System, Disruption Pod, Muti-Tracker, Targeting Array

Heavy Support:
1 Broadside: Twin-Linked Railgun, Smart Missile System, Targeting Array
1 Broadside: Twin-Linked Railgun, Smart Missile System, Targeting Array
1 Broadside: Twin-Linked Railgun, Smart Missile System, Targeting Array

Some of the Players at my FLGS are getting tired of 2500 point tournaments and want to try 1500 points because we could actually reach turn 6 within 2 hours.

I was wondering how this list would function in a tournament setting dominated by the following: Blood Angels, Horde Orks, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Eldar, Blood Angels and Blood Angels...

**woodbok**

not enough troops, even in fish which can easily popped by assault marines with meltas.

**QuietOrkmi**

What if I focused fire on those nasty assault marines with the 6" meltaguns?

**The Bringer**

That many blood angels?? You're screwed...

On a more helpful note:

You probably are a tad bit low on troops. I would buff up each unit of firewarriors a tad bit. At least up to nine.

Pathfinders usually will never need their devilfish. The reason I say this is because markerlights are heavy weapons, and so deploying in a devilfish would take away at least two rounds of firing... also, they will remain stationary most of the game anyways if you deploy them well enough.

Because of this, get rid of the devilfish on your firewarrior units and give the pathfinder devilfish to them. That will save you a load of points.

Against BA, you won't be facing an incredibly large amount of armor... typically... with how I've seen builds... most likely.... I would suggest getting rid of a broadside and putting in either a railhead or an ionhead. Both would be gold, for different reasons though. Ionheads can insta-gib most any troops, heavy or not. Railheads have submunissions...

I don't really like your crisis suit layouts.

Crisis suits should always get a multi-tracker, with exception to the dethrain and TL Flamer suits, imo. I would give your commander a multi-tracker. Also, against BA, I don't think your commander will survive a round of combat, so the Vectored Retro Thrusters are pointless.

I like to keep my normal crisis suit units simple, so I would just keep your battlesuit units basic Fireknife and ... the BC/MP combination, I'm forgetting the name. Firestorm I believe? Either way, your opinion probably will vary on that points... it isn't as important as the other stuff I listed.

Hope that helps.

**Brothererekose**

The Bringer wrote:You probably are a tad bit low on troops. I would buff up each unit of firewarriors a tad bit. At least up to nine.

Pathfinders usually will never need their devilfish. The reason I say this is because markerlights are heavy weapons, and so deploying in a devilfish would take away at least two rounds of firing... also, they will remain stationary most of the game anyways if you deploy them well enough.Because of this, get rid of the devilfish on your firewarrior units and give the pathfinder devilfish to them. That will save you a load of points.

+1 this.

The Bringer wrote:Against BA, you won't be facing an incredibly large amount of armor... typically... with how I've seen builds... most likely.... I would suggest getting rid of a broadside and putting in either a railhead or an ionhead.

Here, I disagree. Those Fast moving BA Preds are popular in my local scene, so the B-sides ought to stay, but, I'd combine them into one unit (reducing KPs), Target Lock the leader.

Also, your Crisis untis are big at 5 models and it'd be worth the points to bond them, allowing two suits to rally.

**PraetorDave**

Lose the lone crisis suit.

Get some kroot

Go to one squad of Pathfinders, and make it larger

Fit in a hammerhead (or two). Large Blast templates are never a bad thing.

**The Bringer**

Brothererekose wrote:

The Bringer wrote:Against BA, you won't be facing an incredibly large amount of armor... typically... with how I've seen builds... most likely.... I would suggest getting rid of a broadside and putting in either a railhead or an ionhead.
Here, I disagree. Those Fast moving BA Preds are popular in my local scene, so the B-sides ought to stay, but, I'd combine them into one unit (reducing KPs), Target Lock the leader.

Also, your Crisis untis are big at 5 models and it'd be worth the points to bond them, allowing two suits to rally.

Ah well, I don't have any real experience against BA, only what I pick up from batreps and army lists, and the little I know from playing them.

I would just do as brother erekose says, but use the points from the two gone devilfish to get a hammerhead.

**Brothererekose**

The Bringer wrote:Ah well, I don't have any real experience against BA, only what I pick up from batreps and army lists, and the little I know from playing them.

TB, you're *not* swimming/drowning in SW and BA opponents? One recent RTT had 3 of each.

The Bringer wrote: ... use the points from the two gone devilfish to get a hammerhead.

QuietOrkmi, The Bringer is right here, definitely get a Railhead out of the 2 d'fish.

**The Bringer**

No, I play only with my FLGS currently, and the only marine player there is not the best of players...

What I know of marines and BA I pick up on dakka mainly..

Either way, now that I look back, that one statement was completely wrong >.<

**QuietOrkmi**

IIRC: The Tau drones attached to the Crisis Suits only count for morale check if you need to fall back, not to see if you can regroup. As long as I have 2 suits in a unit still alive, it does not matter that I have lost 2 drones and a suit, they can still regroup. I have found that the bonding knife is only needed on Crisis Suits when the team leader is the only one left. Given how you can allocate between the team leader, the other 2 Crisis Suits and the 2 Shield Drones, Chances are that having the team leader being the only one left is a little unlikely. Also do not forget that you can still shoot if you are falling back.

Remember we are talking about 1500 points here... Exactly much can you bring to a 1500 point game...

Against Jet Pack Angels:
1. Creating 2 fire bases at each corner means I either fight half of their army or watch them slog all the way to the other side after my entire army shoots at them every turn.
2. Another strategy is to have all the crisis suits in reserve with one unit of pathfinders and force my opponent to commit their attack against my mass of S5 shots, only to be force to slog back when my reserves drop on their side of the table.
3. If they min-max on 6" meltaguns then I can easily whittle them down with all my anti-infantry fire.
Against Mech-Angel:
The broadsides in cover are going to blow up their vehicles more reliably than a hammer head (1 shots at TL-BS 4 hit 8/9 of the time, while 1 shot at BS 4 hits 6/9 of the time, factor in that I can get 2 shots that hit more often for the slightly less, broadsides are king). The reason the broadsides are split is to save the 10 point spent on team leader + Target lock. In addition, one assault from something like a deff kopta does not ruin my day.

Objectives:
Troops are only important when there are objectives, otherwise Tau troops are kinda a joke. To win in objective missions, you contest all but one objective to win...

Single Crisis Suit:
The single Crisis Suit is there to deep strike and melta something... if he lives longer then that, wonderful...

Small Unit Sizes:
1. Low on points means that I have to limit their sizes.
2. Ensures that if my units get assaulted, chances are high that I get wiped or that I lose combat horribly. This way I can continue to shoot my enemy.

Devilfishes:
1. Front armor 12 means that S7 are needed to penetrate.
2. Most of the time it gets a 4+ cover save, thanks to being 12" away or more.
3. Multi-Tracker lets us move 12" and fire 4 S5 shots at BS 4 or move 6" and fire 7 S5 shotes at BS 4. All at about 24" away.
4. Gives me some buffer room between my firewarriors and the enemy if I use either 2 Devilfishes and a corner.

Kroot: Lack thereof
1. Ran out of points, plain and simple... The devil fish does everything that a unit of 12 Kroot and 6 hounds could do but better.

At 2500 points I do manage to squeeze in 200 points worth to provide more buffers, outflanking tank hunters, Circle around transports so when I shoot them occupants cannot get out, and if fighting an opponent that reserves I could infiltrate them 2" apart across their line, This means that anything that comes on would not be able to reach the board and thus die...

**The Bringer**

I think suicide suits are a horrible idea. Really, what are the chances that you will deepstrike them where you want to, and then actually cause the vehicle to blow up? You have a roughly 40 percent chance of cause a wrecked result against AV 12.

I think it would be better to have a unit of dethrains camping in the back of your deployment zone where they won't die. Or invest into broadsides.

QuietOrkmi wrote:
Troops are only important when there are objectives, otherwise Tau troops are kinda a joke.

Tau troops are hardly a joke. Rapid fire with the pulse rifles can be nasty in certain situations. I usually run two full units in devilfish when I play as Tau, and used correctly, you can zoom towards an enemy unit, unload the Firewarriors, and precede to fire 48 shots at a unit, and with the aid of markerlights, you could hit with about 40 of them, and cause 27 MEQ wounds, which would kill 9 Marines, and then you would have the SMS and BC shots from your devilfishes to take care of the rest of the unit.

That is totally laughable.

Tau troops may be overpriced, but they can still be good. (And they can even do nastier things to units that actually have a 5+ save)

**QuietOrkmi**

So you want me to use up 480 point to wipe a single assault squad out?

Pulse rifles are alright, but there is much better at our disposal...

**The Bringer**

QuietOrkmi wrote:So you want me to use up 480 point to wipe a single assault squad out?

Pulse rifles are alright, but there is much better at our disposal...

If it is over 18" away from another assault squad, why not.

And sometimes you can even deploy your d-fish so that they will completely block LOS to your firewarriors, so they can remain even safer while they pulp one unit. One fire warrior in rapid fire range is as good as two shoota boys... they just lose a lot of that effectiveness at longer ranges.

**QuietOrkmi**

So you want me to rely on my opponent playing poorly? A smart marine player will see that a mile away, He is going to keep his units close enough to support each other.

**Brothererekose**

QuietOrkmi wrote:IIRC: The Tau drones attached to the Crisis Suits only count for morale check if you need to fall back, not to see if you can regroup. As long as I have 2 suits in a unit still alive, it does not matter that I have lost 2 drones and a suit, they can still regroup. I have found that the bonding knife is only needed on Crisis Suits when the team leader is the only one left.

Try flying that in YMDC.

Your 3 FireKnives with 2 GDs, minus 2 GDs and a suit brings the unit down to 40%. Morale is blown. Without a BK, the two suits cannot rally as it, 'the unit', is below 50% of original unit STR in models and therefore cannot 'regroup'.

Yes, you'll bring up arguments that GDs are bought as Wargear, and therefore *are* wargear, but it its the *model* count that goes against your position. In five years of playing tau and there was no change form 4e to 5e in rallying rules, I have always seen it played and seen the discussions in rules forums, go against your assertion in orange.

**The Bringer**

QuietOrkmi wrote:So you want me to rely on my opponent playing poorly? A smart marine player will see that a mile away, He is going to keep his units close enough to support each other.

That is very well true, but not every one of your opponents will be a marine player, and not every opponent would expect a unit 30" away to shoot you in rapid fire range.

The opportunity presents itself enough for me to employ it. Anyways, sometimes you direct the rest of your firepower to destroy the units within assaulting range of the firewarrior unit anyways, and so you would be able to employ that tactic more often. Your crisis suits for example could probably get rid of another marine unit, and so that would greatly increase your ability to use the firewarriors instead of having them camp in the back in an expensive transport.

Brother Erekose, you may be right, but lets just let his FLGS or whoever he plays with decide.

**QuietOrkmi**

@ Brother Erekose: As for the Bonding knife, I guess the people there have just been playing it there and I never thought to question it... I am sorry if I sounded rude, arrogant or a man who wears his rectum on his head...

@ Bringer: IMHO it is just a very expensive tactic that is easily avoided by marine players can easily avoid by keeping it in mind. I will grant its effectiveness but it is just very expensive to implement. Those expenses have to come from somewhere and removing anything else might cripple the list against certain threats (Terminators, Vehicles, Landraiders)

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Taking the Discussion to a different track (FoF and bonding knives)...

I have been ridiculously frustrated with my hammerheads as they like to miss, while statistically this does not happen often, it feels like it happens all the time as it starts the game with a bulls eye on its hull....

Do you guys, other Tau Players, fire the hammerhead as a template (causing it to hit more often) and be more anti-infantry then anti vehicle?

**The Bringer**

QuietOrkmi wrote:
Do you guys, other Tau Players, fire the hammerhead as a template (causing it to hit more often) and be more anti-infantry then anti vehicle?

I get hammerheads for anit-infantry, not for solid shot. Broadsides are better at the whole AT thing becuase they have not only a higher chance of hitting, but you can also get two for every hammerhead.

**Oscarius**

Hammerheads are firstly antinfantry through subs and the support system. May fire the single shot on a tank, though I avoid it.
Broadsides are the answer to all things mech, but can also put some odd wounds on infantry with their smartmissiles.

**QuietOrkmi**

Aren't you guys afraid of alpha striking scout moving meltas or deff koptas?

**Oscarius**

Not with kroot screens.

**QuietOrkmi**

I see what you did there sir...