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So, I had two younger friends (they're college seniors, and I'm early 30's) over tonight for a 40k evening. They're both pretty inexperienced in the game, although I took 15 years off and have played 15 or so games, and after restarting the habit have played one of these guys in 10 or so games, but he's never won against me (an important point in their strategy), while the other guys a virgin who likes to paint. So the virgin and I play a game game with his new eldar army at 1500 points against my mech IG in order to help with his rules understanding. After that it was suggested that we play a 2k game with them teaming up against me. They went outside to smoke (I don't smoke) and planned how to use their extra heavy slots to to take me out, since they had two force organization charts and I had one. We rolled Annihilation and Pitched battle for deployment.

I won the roll and gave them first deploymet after seeing their lists (I'm running an all comers list with 6 mech vet squads (4 meltas and 2 plasma in chimeras and the valk, 1 demolisher, 2 hydras, LRBT, Melta Stormies, Marbo, hellhound, Valk with MRPS, and CCS with 4xplasma astropath and chimera). I then proceeded to put my entire army in reserve, outflanking a Valk, deep striking stormies and marbo, and everyone else from the edge.

Even with my Astropath I only got my outflanking valk with some vets, a demolisher, stormies, and 1 mech vet squad in turn 2. Against their 3 Ravagers, 3 Wave serpants with twin linked lances, Fire Prism, and various squads with lance and blaster weapons I had them tabled by turn 3.

I really didn't think it was going to be nearly so one sided, especially after my reserve rolls sucked! I should have had 66% on turn 2, and got 33%! Part of it is that they were so damned aggressive going for my table edge, so they were way spread out, and part of it was alot of good rear armor shots (mainly because of their poor manuevers). I even pointed out to the newb that he shouldn't turn his wave serpant so that I get a rear shot when my reserves come in, since the WS have 360 degree rotation on his twin linked lances, and adjusted the tank for him! Hell I didn't even get the Hydra's in the game before I had them tables since I rolled a 1 on the turn 3.

Should I feel bad, or just hope the lesson is well learned, because I really do feel a bit like a douche right now...

You should feel bad about the formatting on the post, it's almost impossible to comprehend.

So, against two new players, you ran what's considered one of the strongest army builds, and played hard to win.

But you didn't expect new players to be taken off guard against something like that? It was a pretty dick move.

I mean, don't play to lose against new people, but don't do gak like that. You'll just drive them away from the hobby.

Sorry, I guess the fact I honestly didn't play to win, have only played 15 or so games myself since second edition, and it seems that Mech IG minus GK's, and the introduction of lots of new army lists that are competitive since the leaf blower scared everyone, makes my list not the strongest army build that I know of. Combine this with them playing a combined Eldar and DE list crafted to beat my list (a list that they knew before writing their own)?

The guy I feel a little guilty about is the newb, but he's watched us play 5-7 games! I guess the question that I'm really asking is when should you just let it go, and let the other guy win? Proxies were allowed (hell I even proxied 2 chimeras and a vet squad), and I'm not that much more experienced!

I'd have played it a bit relaxed, but made a point of not proxying; using a list which I had painted and looked good over an optimized one.

Sometimes if folks play really badly you can hardly help but win, and you definitely don't want to throw the game deliberately. But taking a deliberately soft but good-looking army is a nice way to stack the deck a bit in their favor before you start.

Yeah, I agree. I've done much the same thing against my flatmate because he kept talking so much smack before we played. I absolutely slapped him down and now he keeps making excuses about playing.

So yeah, consider the morale of your opponents. We're not space marines on the inside...

That being said, it was pretty hilarious while it was happening!

I believe you should refrain from using what is obviously a hard build when playing people whom you have an interest in cultivating a desire to join the hobby.

Yes, it was a dick move. Even when playing relaxed, you will decimate most beginners with such a build.

Should you have a genuine interest in having them join the hobby, you will give them a fair chance at winning.
I am not talking about throwing the game, but rather making "softer" armies.

All depends on the attitude of the other two players really. Some people just hate losing and view it as "unfun". Some people (like myself) do not like it if they find out someone pulled their punches even a little. If you haven't been friends with them a while then its best to air on the side of caution and pull your punches a bit as the percentage of the population that hates losing is far greater then the percentage that hate being treated with kid gloves.
That being said its a game and meant to be fun so I wouldn't worry about it more then a second or two. If they are going to lose interest in the hobby over one game where they get absolutely destroyed because of mistakes they made, then they were going to lose interest in the hobby sooner rather then later anyway.

just my 2 cents though

The list you took was pretty hard. You could win tournaments with that thing. it's not completely optimized, but there's nothing in there that isn't "good".

You also used a moderatly advanced tactic by reserving everything. In most games against newbs you try to let them learn the flow of the game before you start making them think tactically. You can't use a tactic like that and then claim to not be trying to win.

I don't think you should feel bad, but you certainly didn't do the best job you coudl have in bringing newer players along.

It really depends on your opponant, and wether they are njoying themselves or not. Belive it or not there are people in this hobby who play more towards the looks and the fluff of this game then they do towards winning. So as long as both parties are enjoying themselves then there is nothing wrong with it.

That being said, if I was going against a relativly new player, especially one trying to get the hang of both the game and Eldar there are certain things I would not do. I would not run a list against them I was bringing to a tournement and I would not deep strike...

Well it seems, beginners or no, some people are crap at tactics. I regularly beat my opponent. In fact the only time he's ever beat me, we found later his force charts were wrong.
What it boils down to is he a fluff player. He likes the 'look' of certain armies but has no idea what he's doing with them. I play CSM (forever) and he used Eldar. After getting trounced in small and large battles he started to build a CSM army, to learn how to beat mine! In the end he built a Daemons army instead because he preferred the look of them. So now he has two armies he doesn't have a clue about.
He also gets scared of certain units he has to face, so builds his tactics around annihilating just that unit. Great! All I have to do is field an 8 man berserker unit and he's spending so much time fretting over them my Death Gaurd just amble across the table and (take objective, wipe out squads...etc).
My usual tactic is to bunch all my squads together and form a mobile battle line. I can concentrate fire where it's needed and soak up any assaults that come my way. I know my weaknesses. I can't deal well with any long range fire or large templates. So where are his Bright Lances? Large Gaurdian or Dire Avenger squads? REAPERS?! In the box it seems. 20 Howling Banshees with powerswords seem to be the only thing to destroy berserkers.
The thing is we have fun. He knows I am a better tactician and I have better luck (FACT). But he gets to get his hard painted models out and have them run around and shoot stuff. So as long as your opponent's are aware of your abilities and how they differ from their own, your games should be learning experiences until the armies equalize. This may take some time, so destroy your opponent and then have a laugh about it.

So the game was 2000pts, but it was 2 players vs 1. So, did you get 2000pts to play with and they were each 1000pts? And, they were each restricted to their own FOC?

That right there is pretty unfair. Eldar require a lot of pts just to field the Farseer+2DA squad+2WSs. By limiting him to 1000pts and forcing a FOC, you're crippling his ability to take the great options available at higher point games (Seer Council, Fire Dragons, Prisms, etc).

-Loki- wrote:So, against two new players, you ran what's considered one of the strongest army builds, and played hard to win.

But you didn't expect new players to be taken off guard against something like that? It was a pretty dick move.

I mean, don't play to lose against new people, but don't do gak like that. You'll just drive them away from the hobby.

This is exactly how I look at it. If I were there, Id be calling you a dick for that. I teach alot of people how to play, and there are some young kids that play at my house and when that is the case, I do not write up my lists to be that hard. I make them a llittle tuff but thats about it. When playing against new people, or someone you have beaten 10 times in a row with no chance of loosing, you DO NOT build a hard list. All that does, is make them wish they had never spent money on it in the first place.

Im not saying give the game away, but christ sakes melta vets in a Valk? You should know by now those smoke anything on the table. Basically throw your strategy out the window, and stop taking the baddest mofos in your codex. Play with a different tank, take a different vet unit, dont optimize your units so tightly. This is your chance to enjoy the game more and realize, you know, said unit isnt so great compitition wise, but damn they are fun to play with. FlashGits are out as soon as Im playing a tougher player, but against newbies and the like, they are in, I friggin LOVE FlashGits.


So yes, feel terrible you terrible terrible person!