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Ladies and--well, mostly gentlemen, but still. This is the one, the only (so far as I know) Codex: DOOM! A Codex supplement for Warhammer 40,000 in its first draft with a number of non-critical sections still to be completed, and the writer of this Codex is asking YOU, yes, YOU, for YOUR INPUT on this Codex! Points values need changing? A wrong case used in the introductory sentence of page 12? Let's hear it! Yes, all of it! Every little criticism that can be levelled against this Codex, heap it all on!

Thus, without further ado, behold:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/46265679/Codex-Doom

And please, everyone, no matter what you think of DOOM or this Codex, please do try to enjoy it!

[THIS SPACE WILL BE USED TO DOCUMENT SUGGESTED CHANGES THAT THEY MIGHT NOT BE REPEATED.]
I am already aware of the page-number issue on the Table of Contents. This was a technical problem rather than an editing problem. It will be fixed before the next version goes up.
The appearances section makes them appear to lose frequently. This is not the case, and will be addressed in the Artifact's fluff section.
The Cyberdemon is at present dramatically undercosted/overpowered. This will be remedied, but the jury is still out on the details.
The "Demon" upgrade for the Pinky is undercosted. Details remain needed.
Inhuman Troopers will be adjusted based on Imperial Guardsmen; when specifics are determined, they will be posted here.
The Cacodemon has been suggested to be modified to "around Carnifex price." I will look into this at my LGS unless other suggestions override or specify this.
Rear armor values on vehicles are to be decreased, although specific values are currently indeterminate.

point costs on some of the larger things are way to low.

They don't win very much in their fluff do they?

cgage00 wrote:point costs on some of the larger things are way to low.

Specificity is good.

purplefood wrote:They don't win very much in their fluff do they?

I guess I didn't make it clear enough, then, that these ARE victories in most cases. They go in, do what they want to, and leave. They have no reason to stay and take over the planet. The only way that these can be viewed as losses for them is in the fact that they didn't find the Artifact. These are victories in the sense that the Artifact was sought after; even if the Artifact wasn't there, then that's one more place where the Artifact is not to be checked off.
I guess I'll include this in the Artifact's fluff section. Thanks!

heh for some reason i find the "When its dead, its dead" special rule funny

lol 6 imps for 66 pts.

EEEEVVVVVIIILLLLLLL.

Cacodemon 90 points


19 Pinky – Fast Attack choice, 15 points, upgrade Demon for 45 points so 61 points for something pretty much stronger then any other MC in the game.

Cyberdemon is a bit over the top.

Also some things are a bit under par.

I mean its better then anything I would ever be able to do dont get me wrong. Just needs a bit of tuning.

cgage00 wrote:Cacodemon 90 points

What about it? Need more points? Fewer?

19 Pinky – Fast Attack choice, 15 points, upgrade Demon for 45 points so 61 points for something pretty much stronger then any other MC in the game.

Cyberdemon is a bit over the top.

I don't know whether or not you've played DOOM, but that guy's a bit over the top there, too. Probably does need more points on him, though. 500?

Also some things are a bit under par.

Like what?

I mean its better then anything I would ever be able to do dont get me wrong. Just needs a bit of tuning.

The tuning is why it's going online before I start playtesting it--I don't have an awful lot of 40K experience under my belt, so I need other players' opinions what needs fixing.

alexgm101 and sHROUDD, glad to hear you're enjoying it already!

the Cacodemon should be around Carnifex price. The Cyberdemon in game was over the top but shouldnt have 10 wounds maybe 6. and its the troops T 2 is kinda weak id say make them 3.

Inhuman troopers: 10 for 40 points, 4 points each, yet additional troopers are 6 points each?

Same (initial) price as IG conscripts yet worse statline. Also, 8 points for a veteran with a worse statline than a 5pt guardsman.

Ulver wrote:Inhuman troopers: 10 for 40 points, 4 points each, yet additional troopers are 6 points each?

Same (initial) price as IG conscripts yet worse statline. Also, 8 points for a veteran with a worse statline than a 5pt guardsman.

Well, I didn't have the IG stuff on hand while I was making this. I'll take a look at it at my LGS, thanks!

cgage00 wrote:the Cacodemon should be around Carnifex price. The Cyberdemon in game was over the top but shouldnt have 10 wounds maybe 6. and its the troops T 2 is kinda weak id say make them 3.

Alright, I can go with those. I'll take a look at the IG about the troopers, but I'll take down the Cyberdemon's Wounds and raise his price.

Tiny imperfections? Well;

Your invisibility rule could be worded better, the rule works fine. But the sentence before that doesn't work well.

5th line on the chaingun guy's fluff, you've got a space within the word 'god's'

On the entry for the 'Pinkies', on the first line you have a comma that shouldn't be within the quotation marks.
On the same entry, you have 'Specters' with a full stop within the marks, which shouldn't be there.

Lost souls entry, you've written 'four' instead of 'for'
Same entry, you have Lost souls in marks with a full stop within them.

On the Revenant's entry, 3rd line of the second paragraph, you've written 'the love moving...', when it should read 'they love moving...'

The last line of the Trite swarm's fluff could be worded better, as of now the lighting note makes no sense.

I do hope that helps, and it is what you asked for
Besides these, it's a very good codex. I particularly like how the ranged weapons work, and the vast amount of individualism within the book.

geza55, while I argee that the commas and periods shouldn't be inside the quotation marks, every single English teacher I have ever had and every single grammar book that I have ever had tells me that they should be inside. It could just be a difference between USA and Britain, but I don't know.

Aside from that, though, thanks for the good eye! It does help, and it is indeed what I asked for.

Ok... the fluff seems good, read through most of it... good start =D
The special rules seem ok, the Dodge or Die rule need a re-read but that might be my tiredness.

Onto units and points...
---
Inhuman Troopers.
Too expensive, 10 points for a veteran is absurd considering the cost of other units like pinky (which i'll move onto later). I'd put the toughness upto 3, start off with a guardsmans/conscripts stats+costs and adjust accordingly.
I'd also consider a limit on a troopers/vets ratio, having more vets than troopers would just seem wierd.
It would also be nice to them stubborn, considering the low Ld, its hard to imagine the (technically) dead fleeing, well, the veterans anyway as stubborn would give a good reason for the +4 points
Another reason the points cost seems high is the lack of any offensive firepower, and low BS, meaning these guys will generally do nothing except get in the way.
Possibly consider the rifle being S:3 AP:5 rapid fire and the shotgun S:3 AP:- assault 2
---
Chain gun guy
Stats seem ok, the chain gun is decent for wound saturation on a target with all of those shots, I'd put him to 25 at least due to his BS4 + 4 shot gun. For 5 points the tentacle is simply wrong... S10 and AP1? the stats are either too good or the points are too low...
---
Imps.
BS 5 is quite a rare thing, having a unit with it could be very nasty, play testing these could prove them to be over powered... depending on fireball... not sure what thats getting at (didn't see a detailed explanation), especially with dodge or die.
If your S:X would targetting initiative have any effect? also, 8-X AP? it might be easier to simply make the AP D6, as that is already used in the game. What does Y stand for?
Also at 11 points each.
I'd give them an invun save, well, at least the nightmare ones.
---
Cacodemon.
Small unit, perfect for the BS5 mentioned above, points are a bit low considering the statline and the jetpack. T5 however means you can be insta-gibbed by S:10 weapons, but not all armies have those. Consider dropping the S,W and maybe adding fearless to these guys.
---
Pinkys.
Under-pointed
Firstly though... make the unit 1 + 9 additional as a cap of 11 seems off IMO.
ok... weapons of nightmare and unnatural skin... didn'nt see those explained so can't comment.
-Pinky. Stats seem ok, its a pretty rounded combat guy, not too fast, not to strong, not to tough, i'd drop them to 2 wound and make them about 18 and see how that goes.
-Spectre. The invisibility rule sounds great! especially for these guys, have you had a look at the Eldar power "Veil of tears?" could give more inspiration into invisable qualities. I though the spectre were just invisable pinkys? not stronger? maybe they are, im not sure, but with the stats as they are now (with W:2 like pinky) have them at +12 (so same as before, a total of 30. 30 seems good for them.
-Demon. HOLY COW I WANT SOME!!! that is a beast! the points are way to low... the cheapest wraithlord is 100 points and is the only non-c'tan non-apoc unit in the game and it only has 2 attacks and 2 wounds (but it is strength 10) For 60 points demon is way to low. I'd consider dropping T to 6, and W to 3. Then bump up the cost a little more, hes a fast little bugger!
-I'd also give these guys fleet of foot.
---
Lost souls.
Hit and run = perfect for them
Furious charge = perfect for them
jump packs = perfect for them
blazing charge = perfect for them
independant... not so much, under 5th ed, thats makes them a kill point each!
- Make it so, they act independant, may never join a unit, even each other. Take 1-10 per fast attack slot. Make it so if they survive they HAVE to hit and run. Make them unable to contest objectives and confer no kill points (hence the limit of 10 and no contesting to balance it out) Essentially you have exploding skulls that can perform a suicide charge to cause small amounts of damage without making you auto loose a kill points game.
- It may be intersting to allow them 1 S:4 hit on the unit that killed them in combat, since they explode.
---
---
---
Ok, that'll do for now!
Sorry if i sound mean or anything, not intended, i love what your doing with this and its coming along great.
(note, did not spellcheck )

dayve110 wrote:Ok... the fluff seems good, read through most of it... good start =D
The special rules seem ok, the Dodge or Die rule need a re-read but that might be my tiredness.

Dodge or Die! is currently on the slate to be removed in the next version unless I can find something better to do with it. At the very least, it will be simplified to "this attack is resolved against Initiative instead of Strength."

Inhuman Troopers.
Too expensive, 10 points for a veteran is absurd considering the cost of other units like pinky (which i'll move onto later). I'd put the toughness upto 3, start off with a guardsmans/conscripts stats+costs and adjust accordingly.
I'd also consider a limit on a troopers/vets ratio, having more vets than troopers would just seem wierd.
It would also be nice to them stubborn, considering the low Ld, its hard to imagine the (technically) dead fleeing, well, the veterans anyway as stubborn would give a good reason for the +4 points
Another reason the points cost seems high is the lack of any offensive firepower, and low BS, meaning these guys will generally do nothing except get in the way.
Possibly consider the rifle being S:3 AP:5 rapid fire and the shotgun S:3 AP:- assault 2

Part of the problem here is that these guys aren't seriously veterans; they're only a little better, and that's mostly because of the gun. They will be toned down pointswise in the version currently in the works, and I will be consulting C:IG about that. And, well...all they did in the game was get in the way, too. I'm trying to include everyone here.

Chain gun guy
Stats seem ok, the chain gun is decent for wound saturation on a target with all of those shots, I'd put him to 25 at least due to his BS4 + 4 shot gun. For 5 points the tentacle is simply wrong... S10 and AP1? the stats are either too good or the points are too low...

I wasn't sure about him. I wanted the tentacle to be primarily an anti-tank weapon to diversify the unit a little; I'll just make id 2D6 armor penetration instead (NOT melta; this thing is not getting distinctly weaker with range). I will turn up the points on him, thanks!

Imps.
BS 5 is quite a rare thing, having a unit with it could be very nasty, play testing these could prove them to be over powered... depending on fireball... not sure what thats getting at (didn't see a detailed explanation), especially with dodge or die.
If your S:X would targetting initiative have any effect? also, 8-X AP? it might be easier to simply make the AP D6, as that is already used in the game. What does Y stand for?
Also at 11 points each.
I'd give them an invun save, well, at least the nightmare ones.

Fireball, as listed in the Wargear section (possibly to be abolished), is based completely upon the unit using it; Y is the user's Attacks. I'm not sure about these guys' BS, but the Nightmare Imps do indeed have an Invulnerable save (5+, as per the Invisible rule).

Cacodemon.
Small unit, perfect for the BS5 mentioned above, points are a bit low considering the statline and the jetpack. T5 however means you can be insta-gibbed by S:10 weapons, but not all armies have those. Consider dropping the S,W and maybe adding fearless to these guys.

They really are perfect for Fearless, aren't they? T5 was intentional; the very biggest guns should definitely be able to knock these guys down without any trouble, but weaker guns still get a good go. I'm not sure where the points ought to be, though; any ideas on where that should end up?

Pinkys.
Under-pointed
Firstly though... make the unit 1 + 9 additional as a cap of 11 seems off IMO.
ok... weapons of nightmare and unnatural skin... didn'nt see those explained so can't comment.
-Pinky. Stats seem ok, its a pretty rounded combat guy, not too fast, not to strong, not to tough, i'd drop them to 2 wound and make them about 18 and see how that goes.

Being "off" with the numbers is completely intentional with this Codex. I'll probably have wacky numbers all over the place by the end of things. Haven't playtested yet, so I can't speak to cost or Wounds except to consider your point of view.

-Spectre. The invisibility rule sounds great! especially for these guys, have you had a look at the Eldar power "Veil of tears?" could give more inspiration into invisable qualities. I though the spectre were just invisable pinkys? not stronger? maybe they are, im not sure, but with the stats as they are now (with W:2 like pinky) have them at +12 (so same as before, a total of 30. 30 seems good for them.

-Demon. HOLY COW I WANT SOME!!! that is a beast! the points are way to low... the cheapest wraithlord is 100 points and is the only non-c'tan non-apoc unit in the game and it only has 2 attacks and 2 wounds (but it is strength 10) For 60 points demon is way to low. I'd consider dropping T to 6, and W to 3. Then bump up the cost a little more, hes a fast little bugger!
-I'd also give these guys fleet of foot.

Demon's points are skyrocketing. I think he's going to be roughly 100-136 total in the next version. Also, Fleet comes with being a Beast.

Lost souls.
Hit and run = perfect for them
Furious charge = perfect for them
jump packs = perfect for them
blazing charge = perfect for them
independant... not so much, under 5th ed, thats makes them a kill point each!
- Make it so, they act independant, may never join a unit, even each other. Take 1-10 per fast attack slot. Make it so if they survive they HAVE to hit and run. Make them unable to contest objectives and confer no kill points (hence the limit of 10 and no contesting to balance it out) Essentially you have exploding skulls that can perform a suicide charge to cause small amounts of damage without making you auto loose a kill points game.
- It may be intersting to allow them 1 S:4 hit on the unit that killed them in combat, since they explode.

Their explosion in the original DOOM game never caused any damage, so that's not going to be factored in. However, I do like your ideas on re-working their Independent nature.

Ok, that'll do for now!
Sorry if i sound mean or anything, not intended, i love what your doing with this and its coming along great.
(note, did not spellcheck )

You don't sound any meaner that I deserve for making these abominations! Thanks for the help, the next version might be up by the weekend. (Spellcheck not an issue as long as I can follow you! )

Ahh, sorry, that would be it then.

We use 'and' for quotation marks, with punctuation outside.
Makes more sense if you use "and," with it inside when you put it like that.
Just a difference over the ocean then

Still, love the codex

It looks to me like the Basic Soldiers are waaaaaaaay underpriced.

BS 2
S2 shoot weapons
6+ armor save

but you're paying 40 points for 10 and 6 more for any further taken.

IG are substantially better yet only cost 50 points for 10 and they're getting BS 3, S3, 5+ armor save, and Frag Grenades.

grayspark wrote:It looks to me like the Basic Soldiers are waaaaaaaay underpriced.

BS 2
S2 shoot weapons
6+ armor save

but you're paying 40 points for 10 and 6 more for any further taken.

IG are substantially better yet only cost 50 points for 10 and they're getting BS 3, S3, 5+ armor save, and Frag Grenades.

Your two statements are in contradiction.

Why does the Cyberdemon have T8? That is WAY too high for the point cost. If the cost was increased and maybe tuned to an Apocalypse only HQ, that could work

Just saying that it has comparable stats to the Hierophant for 950 points less

Hierophant stats:
WS: 6 BS: 3 S: 10 T: 9 W: 10 I: 3 A: 8 LD: 10 SV: 2+

Edit: Added Stats

Quite good to see the Imps in 40k. Together with Even Horizon, they got right the idea Hyperspace = Hell.

I'll leave hardened analysis and criticism to others, but I enjoyed this. Makes me want to fire up DOOM again...

Sorry, but I have done this before you.

Yours is much better as it has fluff, but mine had a cover and such.

I will give it a read and tell you what I think once I have finished..

I read through it and I really liked =) Fun to read. I'm not a very experienced player though, so I'll avoid commenting on power-level issues. One thing that did look off to me, though, was the tentacle on the Chaingun Guy (I think it was him). Str 10 Ap 1 Assault 2 seems a little too OP, but you already said you were thinking about changing it so I guess that's fine Good job on the codex!

rivers64 wrote:

grayspark wrote:It looks to me like the Basic Soldiers are waaaaaaaay underpriced.

BS 2
S2 shoot weapons
6+ armor save

but you're paying 40 points for 10 and 6 more for any further taken.

IG are substantially better yet only cost 50 points for 10 and they're getting BS 3, S3, 5+ armor save, and Frag Grenades.

Your two statements are in contradiction.

How?

You're paying too much for crap.

I said exactly what I meant to say.

grayspark wrote:

rivers64 wrote:

grayspark wrote:It looks to me like the Basic Soldiers are waaaaaaaay underpriced.

BS 2
S2 shoot weapons
6+ armor save

but you're paying 40 points for 10 and 6 more for any further taken.

IG are substantially better yet only cost 50 points for 10 and they're getting BS 3, S3, 5+ armor save, and Frag Grenades.

Your two statements are in contradiction.

How?

You're paying too much for crap.

I said exactly what I meant to say.

I think what you meant to say is overpriced, underpriced implys that you believe that the stats of the model are better than the price for them.

Sorry, it has been a little hectic with the last few days as I have been returning to college for the semester. I have posted a new thread to discuss the updated version of my Codex: DOOM (with apologies to A Black Ram for claiming first when I actually was not), and have included all of your input so far as I am able. I have linked to the new thread below; enjoy!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/338866.page