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LIST:

1) Tactical Marine Squad (180 Pts)
+Flamer
+MM
+Combi-Melta

2) Tactical Marine Squad (205 Pts)
+Flamer
+Lascannon
+Combi-Melta
+Teleporter Beacon

3) Rhino's (60x2) (120 Pts)
+Extra armor
+Storm bolter

4) Scout Squadron(10) (170 Pts)
+Snipers(x10)
+Heavy Bolter(w/Hellfire Rounds)
+Camo Cloaks (x10)

5) Captain (115 Pts)
+Boltgun
+Powersword

6) Land Raider Redeemer (275 Pts)
+Multimelta
+Extra armour
+Stormbolter

7) Marneus Calgar (265 Pts)
+Armour of Antilochus(w/teleporter)

8) Command Squad (115+? Pts)
+???


(So far it's 1445 points, however, in reality I can reduce it by as much as 100-150 points if need be)

Okay, so, here's my plan, I intend to use Calgar in the Command Squad instead of the captain to get him FNP, so, although I know this may seem a bit ridiculous, and yes, in case you were wondering, this is my first army. I was wondering what I should outfit the command squad with, futhermore, I will be using that LRR in there somewhere, since it is already painted etc lol, I intend to use it to transport some termies with TH + SS in larger games etc. However, since I am limited to like 1500-1600 pts, I decided that Marneus Calgar + Command Squad would be just as tough if not more effective than the terminators and it would also be better at doing assault and also shooting, and FNP would def. make them a pain in the arse for people to deal with. Also, I figured that the command squad would be more versatile and wouldn't, in and of itself, be dependant on Calgar, although Calgar on them, and thus, I would be able to switch to another hero etc. if need be. Also, I felt as though, especially with all the vehicles etc. running around, a really tough squad of BA's like this could take down even LR's. However, it seems as though the Command Squads are so versatile that I have no clue what to do with them.
Advice would thus be great.

However, I would also like to explain why, for some random reason I'm using a lascannon, and my possible idea of making only one of the rhino's have the extra armor and storm bolter. This Rhino will be transporting the lascannon squad, which, I intend to drop on top of an objective, pop smoke, and then speed into the enemy, make some dangerous terrain/block them, and then shoot off lascannon shots at incoming enemies, yet still maintain the ability to fight off hordes by using the flamer, however, I was wondering, if I should throw these guys into the LRR and put Calgar and the BA's into a drop pod or something like that, mainly, I want to know what sort of transport should be used for my objective holders, and what should I use for Calgar&Company, also, what should I do with those scouts? I understand that they should outflank etc, but I want to know, just for y'alls experience, what the optimal method for playing sniper scouts would be, please help, thanks


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I was wondering, if at all possible, someone could point out what they think the greatest weakest my army is, what list you think would easily beat me, and then post said list so I could play test against it and try to improve my army via trail and error.

The greatest weekness of this army is that you managed to put over 500 points into the most over priced useless models in the dex.

Calgar himself costs more then 6 terminators... He can't kill 6 terminators in close combat...

What I'd recommend...Running a more conventional build.

HQ:
Chaplin - 100 points
(Put him in termintor armor only if you are planning on teleporting him into battle)

Eliete:
Assult terminators - 200 points
(2x Lighting Claws, 3x Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield)

Dedicated Transport:
Land Raider Redemer - 270 points
Rhino - 30 points
Rhino - 30 points
Rhino - 30 points

Troops:
Tacticle Squad - 170 points
(Flamer, Missle Launcher, Power Fist)
Tacticle Squad - 170 points
(Flamer, Missle Launcher, Power Fist)
Tacticle Squad - 170 points
(Flamer, Missle Launcher, Power Fist)

Heavy Support
Predator - 85 points
(AC, HB Sponsons)
Predator - 85 points
(AC, HB Sponsons)
Predator - 85 points
(AC, HB Sponsons)

This list will give you much more bang for you buck, I tried to use the core of your original list while adding what it sounds like you want.

Hi, maybe a quite good think is to drop sarg PFs and leave dakka preds and take 2x rifleman dread(2x TL AC) and 2x land speeder with MM/HF, still good fire power + armor hunter speeeders, and we still are below 1600pts.

Catyrpelius wrote:Tacticle Squad - 170 points
(Flamer, Missle Launcher, Power Fist)
Tacticle Squad - 170 points
(Flamer, Missle Launcher, Power Fist)
Tacticle Squad - 170 points
(Flamer, Missle Launcher, Power Fist)

How good are the missile launchers at taking out vehicles, would you suggest that I take a hunter-killer missile instead of the extra storm bolter?

Futhermore, my concern with this setup is that, according to this: http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Space_Marine_Tactica#Tactical_Squads , I should just leave the Missile Launchers and Power Fists at home. And, from what this little guide says, the meltas are extremely effective against most anything you throw in front of them, however, I don't know if this guide is outdate.

And also, I want to take advantage of scouts, so if I did adapt to this list, I would only have one of those tactical squads, do you think my list would remain as powerful with 2 tac squads and 1 squad of scout snipers w/ camo cloaks?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just remembered, doesn't Calgar have eternal warrior, making instant death useless, get's the termie armor, and have 5 attacks? which is better, the 10 attacks from him and command squad? or the thunder hammers etc. from termies?

Missle launchers aren't spectacular at takeing out vehicles, but they are free. At Str. 8 it can hurt more or less any vehicle out there to some extent. And did I mention its free?

I would suggest not takeing the hunter-killer missle or the extra storm bolter and Instead useing the points to buy something worthwhile, like extra armor for one or more of the predators.

Not everything written on the internet is true, if you talk to 10 people on this forum who play Space Marines competitivly you will get 10 completly different suggestions on how to optomize your list. What I'm suggesting just comes from my own experiance and what I've done in the past.

Im not sure you can actually take advantage of scouts, they are fairly underwhelming. If you can get them in cover they can be hard to take out, but dont count on sniper rifles doing a ton of damage, its a pretty underwhelming weapon. Not to mention if you go the scout route you miss out on your free heavy weapon and free assult weapon that you get with the tacticles.

Calgar may be an impressive model, but he does nothing for the rest of your army. He is not the Vanilla Marines answer to Mephestin. A Chaplin attached to a 5 man terminator assult squad is about the most dangerous thing SM can field. You have 12 attacks hitting at I4, all of which can be rerolled to hit and 8 of which can be rerolled to wound. You have 9 attacks hitting at I4, all of which can be rerolled to hit. You have 3, 3++ saves, 2, 5++ saves and a 4++ save. It doesnt get much better then that in my opinion. Calgar is not the equal of 5 termionators... If you want to field a special character, I would recommend adding Vulcan and adding more Melta to your list.

If you drop the crap i.e Calgar, Captain etc you have a decent force besides the wargear.

Consider a Librarian for a HQ; better than a Chaplain I think making those Terminators hurt more.

You need some long range fire power as 3 missiles or whatever don't cut it - you need double that perhaps consider Land Speeder Typhoon which fires two shots etc.

i agree with Catyrpelius a chaplin is extremely dangerious addition, and maybe go with the termiators they are way better, what would you be pitting your SM's againts?

Okay, so what are the benefits of a chaplain vs. the benefits of a librarian?
I'd like it to be an all comers army personaly.

Ok so here are a couple of Pro's and Con's on both chap and libby:


Librarian:

Pros:
* Very tough unit.

* Brings psychic powers AND psychic counters to the low level game, where leadership values are unlikely to beat his, and his various powers are all potential 'I win' buttons if used properly.

* Provides an 'assault monster' to the marines that lets them take care of 'commander type' models easier.

Cons:

* Very expensive unit. Starts expensive, and then requires requisites in the form of bolt pistol, psychic powers and a 'survival enhancer' such as an iron halo.

* Still vulnerable to everything a marine is vulnerable to.

* Psychic abilities may be difficult to properly target or time against smaller, harder to pin down, enemy forces.

Chaplain:

Pros:

* Improves ALL units he's attached to thanks to Litanies of Hate and making them Fearless.

* Is cheapest HQ choice, and for standard gropos build only requires spending points on a bolt pistol. Terminator honors is just for being mean. (Reclusiarch with bp, frags, and terminator honors is still cheaper then the most lightly equipped Codicer and vastly more effective in assault).

* Has a rosarius, "free." Has a power weapon, "free."

Cons:

* Needs to be attached to a squad for maximum benefit.

* Still vulnerable to everything a normal marine is vulnerable to.

* Has difficulty dealing with multi-wound models.

* Fearlessness is a two edged sword.

I've seen a cc monster libby (Veil of Time, Might of Heroes, Jump Pack), tear through an entire enemy army on his own first he hit a Necron Group 1, overrun into Necron Group 2, overrun, phase out he was a beast. However, If the libby was lost during one of the shooting phases, it would have been the end of that game, because the Libby costs so much and there was little left in the Marines army.

But i'm biased because i've had little luck with libby's the dice never favour me when i field one, but chaps are a different story, he's defeated a Necron monolith by himself!!

I hope this info Helps.