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When I've been playing a game lately I keep getting into debates about tank shock. When I do a tank shock if the tank ends where the unit would be the other player just moves art his unit, so the tank is in between it - although the rulebook says must keep unit cohency so this doesn't appear to be right.

Example:

M = M

T = T


MMM
MTM

So the tank is surrounded by models, the tank then moves through those models tank shocking them landing in the middle so like this:

MTMM
M

I said doing that is wrong because the unit isn't in cohency (as the tank is bigger than 2") so the models should move 1" away from the tank as per the rulebook, not be split so half the unit one side and another half the other side - which is right?

You are correct he needs to restore coherency if you land in the center of his models in addition to remaining 1" from the tank itself.

Firstly, you don't move models because the tank moves through them, only the models that end up "underneath" the tank in it's final position.

Secondly, when models do have to be moved they must remain in coherency and must move the minimum amount possible. Depending on the position of the models and the tank this usually means moving the nearest models to form a bridge to keep coherency.

can models just wrap around the back of the tank?

as in

TMM
MMM

If this is not allowed, what if there isnt enough room for the models to move out of the way and stay in coherency?

Tank shock a mob of 30 ork boyz who are in between two buildings or a scenario like that?

You are allowed to wrap a vehicle staying 1" away. In fact, in some cases you have to since the TS rules specify you must move the minimum distance to get out of the way.

calypso2ts wrote:You are correct he needs to restore coherency if you land in the center of his models in addition to remaining 1" from the tank itself.

Thought so. He would split the unit putting 3 one side of the tank and 2 another.

Scott-S6 wrote:Firstly, you don't move models because the tank moves through them, only the models that end up "underneath" the tank in it's final position.

Secondly, when models do have to be moved they must remain in coherency and must move the minimum amount possible. Depending on the position of the models and the tank this usually means moving the nearest models to form a bridge to keep coherency.

Yeah these enemy models ended "underneath" the tank, so he moved them 1" away which was fine but didn't maintain cohency. I kept saying they need to be 2" apart but 2 models where one side of the tank and 3 the other side of the tank - if he put a model at the front of my tank and 1" away he would have been fine.

Mercer, this is an issue with your opponent not reading to the end of the paragraph, and you not breaking the book ou to show him. It's really clearly spelled out in the book.

"If some enemy models in the enemy unit would end up underneath the vehicle when it reaches its final position (it makes no difference whether the unit is falling back or not), these models must be moved out of the way by the shortest distance, leaving at least 1" between them and the vehicle and maintaining unit coherency."

(Emphasis mine.)

The thing is Mannahnin if my opponent wants ot argue against me he should get out the rulebook to prove he is right, I'm using the ruling as I believe is correct and if I need to be proved wrong he should really show it. However, I perhaps should have got the rulebook out myself...

But, yes, I agree, models should stay 1" away and where the tanks ends models "underneath" should move away, not split apart.

mercer wrote:The thing is Mannahnin if my opponent wants ot argue against me he should get out the rulebook to prove he is right, I'm using the ruling as I believe is correct and if I need to be proved wrong he should really show it. However, I perhaps should have got the rulebook out myself...

What's your rule to determine whose responsibility it is to break out the rulebook? Whoever's turn it is? Whoever's presently moving models? Or just whenever someone disagrees with you? Is it an accepted convention among your friends that you are "the rules guy" and assumed to be right in any disagreement?

mercer wrote:But, yes, I agree, models should stay 1" away and where the tanks ends models "underneath" should move away, not split apart.

Hang on, you're confirming that you agree with the rulebook? Now you're confusing me.

I think he is saying that if you want to do something that is advantageous for your situation, the burden to prove it should probably be on you.

i.e. - The case should not be...
Opponent: I assert power weapons roll +1 on vehicle damage.
Me: Prove it?
Opponent: No you prove me wrong...
(For the record I am not saying PW roll +1 at all )

Is being out of coherency to that's guy's advantage? Depends on the situation. It might not be immediately obvious.

My point is that many situations aren't quite so cut-and-dried, and most people play from memory of the rules, in mutual trust and respect that we know what we're doing. If you see your opponent do something you know is illegal, but he seems sure it's okay & normal, it's worth you documenting your own claim. That way you completely circumvent any "Yes it is." "No it isn't" silliness.

Mannahnin wrote:

mercer wrote:The thing is Mannahnin if my opponent wants ot argue against me he should get out the rulebook to prove he is right, I'm using the ruling as I believe is correct and if I need to be proved wrong he should really show it. However, I perhaps should have got the rulebook out myself...

What's your rule to determine whose responsibility it is to break out the rulebook? Whoever's turn it is? Whoever's presently moving models? Or just whenever someone disagrees with you? Is it an accepted convention among your friends that you are "the rules guy" and assumed to be right in any disagreement?

mercer wrote:But, yes, I agree, models should stay 1" away and where the tanks ends models "underneath" should move away, not split apart.

Hang on, you're confirming that you agree with the rulebook? Now you're confusing me.

The general rule of thumb if if you've got beef, calling on someone then get some evidence as you're doing the correcting and pointing out someones mistake.

So when he moves his models, and you "get beef" and complain that he's not doing it legally, it's on you to break out the rulebook, right?

Yup. Done that and read the rules to him where it says must stay in unit cohency.

Excellent!