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Im new to Warhammer, just took it up over Christmas. Ive bought the battalion and a Lord on Demonic mount. After reading the rules, I found out I cant use a Lord on <2k
I've made a booking at my local GW for a practice game this week and would like your critique on my 1st army.
Using Lord piece to resemble Chaos Sorceror:
Level 2
MoNurlge
Staff of Sorcery
Chaos Steed
12 Chaos Warriors
MoTz
Full Command
Shields
Blasted Standard
20 Marauders
MoSlaan (meat shields, dont want them to break)
Shields
Light Armour
Full Command
Heavy Weapons
10 Warhounds
Scaly Skin
Poison
5 Chaos Knights
Blasted Standard
MoTz
Full Command
998 points
So, Ive focused on Nurgle magic and magic defence. I understand my force wont be doing much till turn 3, so Ive buffed them enough to get them to the other side of the board, where hopefully their natural stats will shine. Got the marauders with shields until melee with GWs. Good armour saves and wards vs shooting too (Cav/Wars). Im hoping my Sorceror is durable with his +2 Arm Save and -1 WS/BS. Any advice is appreciated and what unit shall I put my Sorceror in?
Im new to Warhammer, just took it up over Christmas. Ive bought the battalion and a Lord on Demonic mount. After reading the rules, I found out I cant use a Lord on <2k
Actually, the rules for army selection have changed for army selection. You can now spend up to 25% on lord choices- so at 1000, you could spend 250. Not looking at the warrior book, that's probably not much of a lord- but that model works great for an exalted or sorcerer too.
I'm a fan of the lore of nurgle, and think it's got some fun things. People might not be used to seeing it either, so are less sure what to try to dispel. There might be a better item to take than the staff of sorcery, but I'll leave that to folks better versed in the ways of Warriors and magic.
I'm guessing you don't have any more models to add, so ordinarily I'd have a list of things you could cut to up your model count (shields on marauders, all the upgrades on the hounds, the champion from the knights), but without more models, I don't know where you'd be able to put those points.
Finally, you can't take the same magic standard twice, so you'll have to consider another option for the Warriors standard.
Your sorcerer should probably ride with the knights (as long as they don't have a champion) if your opponent has a cannon or something that he would make you take look out sir checks with. If you don't have to worry about those, I might consider putting him with the warriors, so he can cast as they press forward...
“It was in lands of the Chi-An where she finally ran him to ground. There she kissed him deeply as he lay dying, and so stole from him his last, agonized breath.
On a delicate chain at her throat, she keeps it with her to this day.”
I agree with RZ, you have quite a few points that would certainly be better spent buying more warriors and more marauders. To that end, I'd say make sure your next purchases are a box of warriors and of marauders, if you find that you still like this crazy game
Do you mind a rewrite? Here's what I would do with the models you have and the list you posted:
H: Sorcerer - MoN, level 2, bloodcurdling roar, charmed shield, talisman of protection, spell familiar, demonic mount = 245
Sorcerer -- This guy has been pretty bloated up, but now he has an impressive array of tools to work with. First off, are you mounting that big evil horse on a 50mm base? In which case he really is a demonic mount, which IMO is a fabulous critter, though you have to watch out for cannonballs and such. Hence, the charmed shield to give him a 2+ to ignore the first sniping artillery shot - I think this is an acceptable risk, particularly in your list where he has nowhere to hide even if he's on a barded steed (the knights only have 4 non-champions, and if you dropped the champ they'd need to lose just 1 knight for him to get no Look Out Sir! roll). The demo-mount adds a lot for the points (fear, S5 stomp, 2 S5 attaks, +1 armor, swiftstride, etc), and is a bit more WYSIWYG. I also gave this guy a 6+ ward to add to his 2+ armor, and a spell familiar to get you more nasty nurgle things to cast. Annnnd bloodcurdling roar because it's fantastic - remember that if your enemy has no shooting and minimal magic (which often happens at 1000), you can split off the sorcerer and run solo, screaming and casting where you like.
Warriors -- Such a small unit ... My only change was to replace their illegal blasted standard with the rapturous, helping them be a thorn in the enemy's side. Since they don't really have the numbers to assuredly win combats, now they have a great chance of holding if they lose.
Marauders -- In the long run, you'll probably be running these guys 30-40 strong with just great weapons. 20 is pretty small for the lumberjack role, but I think modeling-wise you should get the ball rolling and avoid wanting to glue shields on them. Still a strong choice, particularly working with the armored knights or warriors.
Warhounds -- You are going to want the tactical flexibility of 2x 5 warhounds, and no upgrades means you can throw away their 30 points with reckless abandon.
Knights -- No change. The champ is a very expensive and somewhat useless upgrade, except when you've got a character with them that you'd like to keep around. Since the sorcerer might spend some time with them - with the demonic mount he's under no pressure to do so, but they are all fast and it gives him a bit more anti-shooting ward - I kept the champ around.
So the sorcerer got a bit fat in my version, but I really think he brings a lot more tools to the table now, with points that were largely frittered away in the warhounds and marauders.
- Salvage
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/01/12 16:20:22
Yes a demonic would be a good way to get my base 600ish point army upto 1k. Ive pretty much glued and painted the models together, so no chance with the great weapon only unit
Looks like my Sorceror will be busy while the guys march forward (didnt know the demonic had a stomp, nice).
Doesnt really look like warhounds can do much apart from screen and that looks a bit dodgy with true LOS.
KSpen wrote:I've pretty much glued and painted the models together, so no chance with the great weapon only unit
It's never too early for corrective surgery
Looks like my Sorceror will be busy while the guys march forward (didnt know the demonic had a stomp, nice).
Another idea would be to give him the golden eye of tzeentch (+ 5 points of something, maybe biting blade?) instead of the talisman of protection + spell familar, for a 2/4+ vs shooting attaks. But I think I'd rather hang with the knights and enjoy their 5+ ward, or just ride him with any unit to avoid small arms fire entirely. The eye would be most useful if you really wanted to solo him around.
Doesnt really look like warhounds can do much apart from screen and that looks a bit dodgy with true LOS.
Screening is just a tiny part of what warhounds are good for - and by screening you mean "give the dudes behind them hard cover," right? Because blocking LoS with warhounds isn't really going to work in 8th. Mostly they're there to control the other army's movement, by diverting and getting in the way and such. Also for tossing into enemy war machines / weak missile troops. Also for clipping into an on-going combat and providing some swiftstride pursuit roles when the enemy breaks. And so on. What do you plan on doing with a single unit of 10 very expensive, very weak warhounds? Flank stuff maybe?
Hope the battle went / goes well, look forward to hearing about your experience.
- Salvage
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/01/12 17:45:49
KSpen wrote:Hey Salvage, I cant for the life of me find that enchanted shield in my armies book and also that the demonic mount has a stomp attack!
The Golden Eye has a really nice ward save, but I cant help to think the +1 dispel is the way to go.
The charmed shield is a generic magic item in the back of the main rulebook, and the demonic mount stomps because it's classed as a Monstrous Beast (again, from the army charts in the back of the BRB), which when ridden by infantry becomes Monstrous Cavalry, which as the BRB says may stomp if able.
Your call on the staff of sorcery, but I think you'll find that the +1 to dispel is not worth the big points you pay for it (and not worth what you could be getting for those points instead). Play a game or so and you should also see the value of spell familiar over the staff, as the strength of your offensive magic depends upon having more spells to cast, as well as the ones you need for that match up, while dispelling rarely comes down to a difference of one. I find that when defending against magic, I am often able to let an unimportant spell through, dispel the spell I really want to stop (by throwing all my dispel dice most often), and then suffer against the other nasty spell, which will probably go Irresistible Force anyway. +1 dispel plays no part in any of those cases ...
Well I played the game last night, split the hounds into 5s. We didnt use any upgrades, just stock statlines.
I was against HE, to summarise, by turn 2 I lost all my 20 marauders and warhounds, while his chariot died in dangerous terrain. My sorceror got the Nurgle Rot spell off and pretty much decimated his team, as well as my knights routing his spearmen.
So yeah, I had fun and realised how magic can turn the game around. 1 chariot routed 20 of my marauders, ouch.
Bought 16 more marauders and a chaos chariot to boost me to 1k.
Warriors- you cant use shield and halberds at the same time but it helps when people shoot at you. -1 to hit then a 3+sv is nice because chances are it will become a 4+ for 15 points you get a 50% of passing armor saved at str 4 shooting attacks where if you didnt pay for that youd be at 5+ 33% of saving. for 15 points id take that every day.
Marauders- counter charge for ur warriors, keep them a lil behind ur warriors and to their side. Run them 6 widex3
Chaos Knights- first mistake players will make is letting them go ahead of the army. They will get flanked and multi charged and you will lose them. Put them on the flank opposite of the marauders. Against a shooty army they wont die with their 1+ sv and i believe 4+ ward or 3+ward.
Hounds - go for warmachines.
Sor- lvl2 you get 2 spells from nurgle, i recommend changing 1 spell for the #1 bubous its a 24 inch cast on a 5+ takes a wound.This is ur snipe spell, target champions heros w/e you want. BoSecrets lets you pick a random spell from fire death or shadow and extra power dice . You can put him in the knights so he doesnt get picked off or solo to go around shooting stuff. If you get regen keep it and put it on ur warriors if you get a 6 drop it b/c it cost to much to cast get 1 to snipe.
Normally I wouldnt spend so much on a hero but you need more models You can tweak the hero to your liking but deff run warriors like that add a banner of rage if you want for extra killy pwr 21 str 5 not a lot will survive that at 1k points.
You need something to fill a rare slot for the future. Both games i've used a giant he has gotten his points back and then some. Spawn eh, random movement speed really blows imo. Warshrine are awesome but no game changer like the giant. I havent used a hellcannon but everyone says they are awesome, but they say giant suck so.. i dunno.
Anyway WoC are a really good army to start WHFB and chaos warriors in my opinion are one of the best core choices in the game.
anyway have fun
Thunderfrog wrote:Sorry to interject, but I'm pretty sure you can't equip a shield on a sorcerer.
The only exception they enjoy is Chaos Armor, if I recall correctly.
Actually because of their chaos armor (and the rule that says they can cast in armor), chaos sorcerers can take all the magic armor - including magic shields, which are simply Magic Armor as far as the BRB cares - that they want.
risquared2 - Keep in mind the FAQ to book of secrets, which makes the bearer revert to a level 1 with a terrible miscast chart, instead of adding an extra spell ala 7th edition. So putting the book on any caster is a bad bad idea.
Kspen - Good purchases post-game, the marauders are definitely needed and the chariot will be fun and smashy
Spoiler:
It's pretty difficult to fit the chariot into 1k too, but I was able to put almost all of those marauders to good use, paid for my stripping out a number of tricksy items across the board:
Sorcerer lost his roar and his sort of inconsequential 6+ ward, but is still rocking the demo-pony, extra spell and DON'T TOUCH ME shield. Warriors lost their stinky Slaaneshi banner (which they probably don't need @ 1000 anyway), and knights lost that points-sink champ, while the marauders found a load more friends! Lots of formation possibilities now: 5x7 for a little steadfast or rank-breaking, 6x6-ish for a middle of the road approach, 7x5 for lots of attaks but full ranks, or 10x3.5 for silly horde action. Dig it.
- Salvage
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2011/01/15 15:37:39
I am pretty certain Mark of Nurgle is inferior to Mark of Tizz now in pretty much every situation for units. For instance on warriors you get a 1 bonus to not get shot, and 1 bonus to not get hit if you are lucky (due to it being -1 WS of the attacker now in melee, not -1 to hit). Mark of Tizz gives you a 1 bonus to not take the wound at all, in all cases. Add in the fact MoT is 10 points cheaper and you have a winner in all cases.
Boss Salvage wrote:Sorcerer lost his roar and his sort of inconsequential 6+ ward, but is still rocking the demo-pony, extra spell and DON'T TOUCH ME shield.
I love the names you come up with for this stuff
The list looks great, if you decide to run a foot character you might be able to squeeze that chariot in, but I like him mounted!
. You can put him in the knights so he doesnt get picked off or solo to go around shooting stuff. If you get regen keep it and put it on ur warriors if you get a 6 drop it b/c it cost to much to cast get 1 to snipe.
