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Made in us
Hooded Inquisitorial Interrogator





Los Angeles

This list is suit-heavy and railhead-heavy. Should do the trick... right? This is my roommates army and he doesn't get as much bang out of this list as it should. We need help with battlesuit configurations and general tactics / list edit to make this list or something like it work. Thanks!


TEAM 1

Shas'vre -146
+Airbursting Fragmentation
+twin linked plasma
+target lock
+multi tracker
+targeting array
+3 shield drones

Shas'ui - 77
+twin linked plasma
+ missile pod
+target lock
+multitracker
+targeting array


Shas'ui - 73
+twin missile pod
+ plasma
+target lock
+multitracker
+targeting array

(differing wargear for wound allocation)


TEAM 2

Shas'ui -68
+melta
+twin linked missile pod
+multitracker
+2 shield drones

Shas'ui 52
+flamer
+twin linked melta

TEAM 3

Shas'ui 68
+plasma
+twin linked missile pod
+multitracker

Shas'ui 73
+plasma
+twin linked missile pod
+multitracker
+targeting array

Shas'ui 57
+flamer (or melta)
+twin linked missile pod
+multitracker
+targeting array

Troops


12 firewarriors 215
+1 markerlight
+devilfish

12 firewarriors 130
+1 markerlight

Heavy Support

Hammerhead 160
+disruption pods
+multitracker
+flachette
+targeting array

Hammerhead 160
+disruption pods
+multitracker
+flachette
+targeting array

Hammerhead 160
+disruption pods
+multitracker
+flachette
+targeting array

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/01/13 23:50:26


 
   
Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User




Points listed seem wrong in various places, adding whats listed gives me 1500pts. Is that what it's supposed to be?
Let me know what point level I'm aiming for and I'll do up a detailed breakdown of everything for you with an army list.

Comments in Red. 
   
Made in hk
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine





Hong Kong

well for one you should go to advancedtautactica and read as many articles as possible. Best site for tau strategy. All beginners never seem to grasp the way tau armouries work.

Your suits are also illegal. You can only use 3 hardpoints and they must be used.






 
   
Made in us
Hooded Inquisitorial Interrogator





Los Angeles

I'm not sure the legality of this list, it's my roomates and he's new to this but he's built a 1500 point list from what I gather. Perhaps he doesn't realize the appropriate way to build a unit based on the codex but what he had written down is what he runs... I am sure something could be amiss in this list in terms of point values / legality.

I have read the battlesuit loadout page on dakka but I will check out advancedtautactica and tell him to as well.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/01/14 04:05:59


 
   
Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User




Alright, 1500pts it is. First things first, I'm going to have to recommend against Advanced Tau Tactica. They have some great information and some great posters but their everyone play nice policy has led to bad tactics being presented as viable. For instance they have an article in their tactica section explaining a few ways in which Vespid can be used. Vespid are generally considered the 2nd or 3rd worst unit in the codex and belong at home on a shelf collecting dust. Of course it doesn't tell you this, because that would be mean/disrespectful/cry me a river. A new player wouldn't know this and reading the article could think, "Hey, I should try that.", and then go out and buy a squad of Vespid only do find out that they are garbage and throw them on the shelf to collect dust. Anyways, my 2ยข, on to the list.
tldr wrote:This list is suit-heavy and railhead-heavy. Should do the trick... right? This is my roommates army and he doesn't get as much bang out of this list as it should. We need help with battlesuit configurations and general tactics / list edit to make this list or something like it work. Thanks!
First and foremost he seems to be missing his HQ.
Some notes for your HQ Battlesuit. Take a Shas'el not a Shas'o the 'o is not worth the extra points and if you want the extra BS/W then take a Targeting Array and Shield Drone for the same amount of points.
Generally speaking you'll want to give your commander the same load out as one of your Elite teams and have him join their unit at the start of the game.
Lastly, leave the Bodyguard at home until you fill your 3 Elite slots with Crisis Suits, they cost more and don't give you anything for it.

Alright on to general Battlesuit stuff, when building Crisis suits you can only have 3 items from the Battlesuit Weapons Systems and the Battlesuit Support Systems lists in your codex. Twin-linked weapons count as 2 items. You can't take 2 of the same weapon, 3 of the same weapon, or a Twin-linked weapon and a normal weapon of the same type.
Units with access to the Battlesuit Wargear list can take as many things as they want but you want to avoid the temptation or you'll end up with bloated units/wasted points.
TEAM 1
Shas'vre -146
+Airbursting Fragmentation
+twin linked plasma
+target lock
+multi tracker
+targeting array
+3 shield drones
The AFP and Plasma rifle fill 2 totaly different roles. By putting them together you are only ever going to be useing one weapon for the role it fills.
Also, the TL Plasma is rather expensive (more than the base suit itself). I would recommend against ever using it.
This unit has far to many upgrades, as I mentioned above its become a bloated pointsink, you could almost get another Crisis suit with the points spent on upgrades.
And lastly, you can't take 3 drones. Only 2, double check the Drone Controller description.
Shas'ui - 77
+twin linked plasma
+ missile pod
+target lock
+multitracker
+targeting array
This is actually close to where you want it to be, just a bit bloated. Drop the Twin-linked, Target lock, and Targeting array.
Missile Pod, Plasma rifle, Multi-tracker is the de facto setup for a crisis suit.
Shas'ui - 73
+twin missile pod
+ plasma
+target lock
+multitracker
+targeting array
Same as above.
(differing wargear for wound allocation)
Don't bother with this, Tau don't need wound allocation shenanigans, you want your teams to have a specific role and different gear takes away from this.
TEAM 2
Shas'ui -68
+melta
+twin linked missile pod
+multitracker
+2 shield drones
This is another case of weapons with different roles, the Fusion blaster's short range and the Missile pod's Mid-Long range.
Shas'ui 52
+flamer
+twin linked melta
Flamer is really only good for filling one of the 3 items on a low point cost unit, you don't want your Crisis suits that close to an enemy or they'll get assaulted. As for the TL Fusion Blaster, I'm not a fan, you have railguns for anti tank.
TEAM 3
Shas'ui 68
+plasma
+twin linked missile pod
+multitracker
Same as before.
Shas'ui 73
+plasma
+twin linked missile pod
+multitracker
+targeting array
And again.
Shas'ui 57
+flamer (or melta)
+twin linked missile pod
+multitracker
+targeting array

Troops


12 firewarriors 215
+1 markerlight
Markerlights don't really belong on firewarriors, get them elsewhere. Also, as much as it sucks in 5th Edition where Troops are so important, Firewarriors are overpriced/not good/etc... Take them in squads of 6 and keep them inside their Devilfish all game.
+devilfish
Should always have Disruption Pods, I also recommend a SMS, Multi-tracker, and depending on points a Targeting array.
12 firewarriors 130
+1 markerlight
As above if you keep them, they need a fish. I would drop them and take some Kroot instead.
Heavy Support

Hammerhead 160
+disruption pods
+multitracker
+flachette Drop this.
+targeting array
More or less right, give them Burst Cannons and depending on points a Target lock.
Hammerhead 160
+disruption pods
+multitracker
+flachette
+targeting array

Hammerhead 160
+disruption pods
+multitracker
+flachette
+targeting array

The list is missing Kroot, you need them to keep your other units safe.
A sample list:
Dorion wrote:HQ
Shas'el Crisis Commander
- Plasma Rifle
- Missile Pod
- Multi-Tracker
- Stimulant Injector

Elites
Shas'ui Crisis Team Leader
- Plasma Rifle
- Missile Pod
- Multi-Tracker
- Hard-wired Drone Controller
- Shield Drone
Shas'ui Crisis Battlesuit
- Plasma Rifle
- Missile Pod
- Multi-Tracker
Shas'ui Crisis Battlesuit
- Plasma Rifle
- Missile Pod
- Multi-Tracker

Shas'ui Crisis Team Leader
- Plasma Rifle
- Missile Pod
- Multi-Tracker
- Hard-wired Drone Controller
- Shield Drone
Shas'ui Crisis Battlesuit
- Plasma Rifle
- Missile Pod
- Multi-Tracker
Shas'ui Crisis Battlesuit
- Plasma Rifle
- Missile Pod
- Multi-Tracker

Shas'ui Crisis Team Leader
- Plasma Rifle
- Missile Pod
- Multi-Tracker
- Hard-wired Drone Controller
- Shield Drone
Shas'ui Crisis Battlesuit
- Plasma Rifle
- Missile Pod
- Multi-Tracker
Shas'ui Crisis Battlesuit
- Plasma Rifle
- Missile Pod
- Multi-Tracker

Troops
Fire Warrior Team (6)
- Devilfish
- Smart Missile System
- Multi-Tracker
- Disruption Pods

Kroot (10)
- Hounds (5)

Heavy Support
Hammerhead
- Railgun
- Burst Cannons
- Multi-Tracker
- Disruption Pod
- Target Lock

Hammerhead
- Railgun
- Burst Cannons
- Multi-Tracker
- Disruption Pod
- Target Lock

Hammerhead
- Railgun
- Burst Cannons
- Multi-Tracker
- Disruption Pod
- Target Lock

Total: 1500
String the Kroot out in a line to make a wall. Use your Crisis suits JSJ to move infront of it and shoot then move behind it. Your opponent will have to go around or assault the Kroot first, kroot die and your Crisis suits get another turn to shoot the piss out of whatever it is thats right in your face. When in assault Hounds will usualy go first, once they go allocate wounds on to them so that more Kroot survive to attack back. Give it a try and see how it goes.

Comments in Red. 
   
Made in us
Water-Caste Negotiator




Pennsylvania, USA

tldr wrote:I'm not sure the legality of this list, it's my roomates and he's new to this but he's built a 1500 point list from what I gather. Perhaps he doesn't realize the appropriate way to build a unit based on the codex but what he had written down is what he runs... I am sure something could be amiss in this list in terms of point values / legality.
This list is quite illegal. The crisis suits can choose to take any of the following:

1. 3 weapons (not recommended, but some configurations do allow this)
2. 2 weapons and 1 support system (this is pretty standard)
3. 1 TL weapon and 1 weapon OR support system
4. 1 weapon and 2 support systems (you would cheat yourself out of firepower with this, though)

Suits can also take stuff from the wargear list without counting them towards the suits hard points. However, I think the only suits that CANNOT purchase stuff from this list are the Shas'ui. The Team Leaders, 'Vres, and HQs all can. As for popular crisis suit configurations, here are the few that I can think of:

1. Fireknife-Missile Pod, Plasma Rifle, Multi-Tracker-This is just a great all around configuration. It's the best for an all-comers configuration and DOMINATES MEQs.
2. Deathrain-TL Missile Pod, Targeting Array or Flamer-This suit is best for popping light armor vehicles. I run mine with flamers and they're extremely helpful and cheap. If you take the Targeting Array instead, though, you're basically taking 3 suits that are DEFINITELY going to hit whatever they're shooting at.
3. Helios-Fusion Blaster, Plasma Rifle, Multi-Tracker-A good unit to deep strike, but much more effective against MEQs and especially monstrous creatures.
4. Sunforge-TL Fusion Blaster, Targeting Array-These are the tank destroying unit. Typically they deep strike behind a tank, blow it up, then die from whatever was inside.
5. Firestorm-Burst Cannon, Missile Pod, Multi-Tracker-This is the anti-infantry configuration. 15 shots altogether, best against Orks, Nids, and the like.

There are a couple more but those are probably the top 5. And like the previous comments said, definitely check out advanced tau tactica. They have all sorts of advice on everything Tau.

Now onto the list. I'm assuming you were looking at making a 1500 point list based on Dorion's calculation. Here's my advice.

I see no HQ. If you're playing friendly games and no HQ is required, you can ignore the rest of this paragraph. However, if you're abiding by the compulsory 2 troops, 1 HQ required by the game, I would take a Shas'El with Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Targeting Array, and a Hard-wired Multi-Tracker. It takes the best of the suit configurations and makes it better by allowing hits on a 2+. I wouldn't worry about a bodyguard because no real benefits are gained from the 10 points it costs for the upgrade. Just have him join 2 fireknives and they should be a very effective unit. Which brings me to my second point.

While the different equipment is a good idea for wound allocation, I think you'll find that the suits are a lot more effective when they're kitted the same. That way the unit can focus on 1 purpose and fulfill that purpose well. Whether it be anti-tank (which I wouldn't take any in this list since you have 3 railheads), anti-infantry, or anti-MEQ, same-configuration suits will get the job done. Tau do so much better when they focus instead of spreading themselves to thin. I would take a unit of Deathrains (Flamers or Targeting Arrays, whichever you prefer or can afford with the points) and make the 3rd unit fireknives, just for versatility.

Now onto the troops. Full 12 man FW squads are nothing to scoff at. In rapid fire range, they can produce a TON of shots (and by ton I mean 24 max ). However, they will die way too quickly if they're out in the open. Try to find the points for another Devilfish and make sure the Devilfish have AT LEAST a Disruption Pod. The Disruption Pod is the best 5 points you can spend in the Tau army. If you're looking for more firepower from them, though, take Warfish, which are Devilfish with SMS, Targeting Array, Multi-Tracker, and Disruption Pod. I run these and they haven't let me down. running them also means you could drop your FW squads and still have a sufficient amount of shots. I would also drop the markerlights from them. They're heavy, which means the FWs can't move if they're going to shoot it, then they're DEFINITELY going to get torn apart. Plus 1 markerlight isn't going to make too much of a difference. The points were off in the squad with the Devilfish anyway. It should be 220 (120+80+10). If you're looking for markerlights take Pathfinders. I run them in my 1500 list and they help tremendously. Another option you may want to consider is Kroot. I just recently started running them and they're surprisingly useful. While they're mediocre at assaulting, they outlfank, can mop up thinned out squads by shooting or assaulting, can hold or contest objectives, and make great bubble wrap for Hammerheads, Broadsides, or Crisis Suits.

The points on the railheads are inaccurate, too. In addition to everything that's already on them, they have to select another weapon system, either 2 Burst Cannons or a SMS. I recommend the Burst Cannons because you get more shots and more often than not, you'll be moving 12 and firing the railgun and not even using the secondary weapon system. If you're looking to shave points I would drop the Flechette Dischargers on these because you could spend the points elsewhere. Another option to consider with your heavy slot is taking Broadsides. I run 2, 1 with Hard-wired Target Lock so that I can split up the fire, and I attach 2 shield drones. This gives them something to throw those low AP wounds on so that the broadsides don't die.

Here's a link to my 1500 list. So far I've played against Orks and Eldar. I lost to Orks (he was running Nob Bikerz) and tied the Eldar. If you have any other questions you want to ask me feel free to PM me. Also encourage your roommate to sign up on here. I've learned soooooo much from looking at army lists, battle reports, and asking about rules I was unsure of. Anyway, here's my 1500 Tau list:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/335549.page


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry, if a lot of this was redundant to what Dorion said, it just took me a while to type it all out. Anyway, I hope it all helps!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/01/14 08:39:33


Bork'an Sept - 1750
Hive Fleet Behemoth - 2000
Blood Angels - 2000 
   
Made in us
Hooded Inquisitorial Interrogator





Los Angeles

You guys are great. Now to digest this information and make a legal and competitive list. I will post the results.

Btw, this list usually plays an ork biker / speed freaks list and gets munched, or mech ig, and does fairly well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Okay, here's what I came up with. It leaves me 10 points under 1500. Anything glaring? Anything not worth taking?

HQ
Shas'el(50) [87]
+multi tracker
+missile pod
+plasma rifle

ELITE

Shas'ui(25) [97]
+team leader
+multi tracker
+hard-wired drone controller
+2 shield drones
+missile pod
+plasma rifle
Shas'ui(25) [63]
+missile pod
+plasma rifle
+multi tracker

Shas'ui(25) [97]
+team leader
+multi tracker
+hard-wired drone controller
+2 shield drones
+plasma rifle
+fusion blaster
Shas'ui(25) [63]
+plasma rifle
+fusion blaster
+multi tracker
Shas'ui(25) [63]
+plasma rifle
+fusion blaster
+multi tracker

Stealth Team 3x [107]
+team leader
+targeting array
+fusion blaster


TROOP

Kroot [114]
+11 kroot
+6 kroot hounds

Firewarriors [120]
12 firewarriors
Firewarriors [120]
12 firewarriors


FAST

Piranha [75]
+fusion blaster
+disruption pod
+targeting array

Pathfinders(72) x6 [157]
+Devilfish (85)
+disruption pod

HEAVY

Hammerhead(165)
+railgun
+disruption pod
+gun drones

Hammerhead(165)
+railgun
+disruption pod
+gun drones

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2011/01/14 21:02:05


 
   
Made in hk
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine





Hong Kong

Oh yes. Dorion is right. ATT tends to be very optimistic about all the units in the tau codex so after a bit of experience you'll just have to know what units they are being optimistic about and what units could really be useful in the way they desribe them.






 
   
Made in us
Trustworthy Shas'vre





Mt. Gretna, PA

Gun drones on the hammerhead?!? Are you mad!?!?!

In all seriousness, gun drones are terrible for the hammerheads. The two burst cannons are way better in every respect, and they are also cheaper, and don't give up a kp.

You need to have a multi-tracker on your crisis suits, not only to be legal but also to fire both your weapons.

With those few extra points you have, I would give the pathfinder d-fish SMS, a TA, and a MT

 Goliath wrote:
 Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:
What kind of drugs do you have to be on to see Hitler in your teapot?
Whichever they are, I'm not on the Reich ones, clearly.
 
   
Made in us
Hooded Inquisitorial Interrogator





Los Angeles

The Bringer - the way this list is played, all the gun drones that detach from transports fill an incredibly annoying and hard to kill floating unit of independent characters which pin. Super annoying against my orks.

You think multi-tracker is the best upgrade for the third slot on these crisis suits? That brings the list up to 1490 then.
   
Made in us
Trustworthy Shas'vre





Mt. Gretna, PA

I really think multi-trackers are a good use, in fact the Best use, of your third hardpoint. If you get two weapons, you want to be able to fire both of them. It greatly increases the effectiveness of crisis suits.

I don't see how you can see any value in gun drones. They aren't hard to kill, they have short range guns, they have low BS, and there gun is pinning, yes, but with mob rule, what orks are going to fail saves that often? Anyways, with 18" range, you are going to be assaulted quite soon. Granted you have JSJ.

Against ork equivalents:

2 Gundrones (twice the cost of 2 burst cannons):

1.11 hit
.74 wound

2 Burst Cannons:

4 hit
2.66 wound

I think the differences in that are so great that you would never want to take gun drones.

 Goliath wrote:
 Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:
What kind of drugs do you have to be on to see Hitler in your teapot?
Whichever they are, I'm not on the Reich ones, clearly.
 
   
Made in us
Hooded Inquisitorial Interrogator





Los Angeles

Well I agree with you on the mathammer.. but for the games we play (I play a ork biker mob, he plays tau), it just comes down to shutting down my elite 5 man or less units of bikers via pinning for that turn.

Do the drones get jsj?

Plus, each pair is an independent character and if I'm assaulting them I'm not moving forward and trying to get into assault with a big unit of firewarriors or a hammerhead. Plus we dont play kill points so...
   
Made in us
Trustworthy Shas'vre





Mt. Gretna, PA

tldr wrote:Well I agree with you on the mathammer.. but for the games we play (I play a ork biker mob, he plays tau), it just comes down to shutting down my elite 5 man or less units of bikers via pinning for that turn.

Do the drones get jsj?

Plus, each pair is an independent character and if I'm assaulting them I'm not moving forward and trying to get into assault with a big unit of firewarriors or a hammerhead. Plus we dont play kill points so...


Yep, they have jet packs, so they can use jsj, which helps save their butts a load of the time.

EDIT - Pathfinders and Fusion/Missile pods combined are probably how one should take out bikers. Pathfinders deny cover save, and increase bs of suits. Suits shoot nobs to kingdom come, insta-killing with the Fusion, cleaning up with the missile pods.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/01/14 22:13:20


 Goliath wrote:
 Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:
What kind of drugs do you have to be on to see Hitler in your teapot?
Whichever they are, I'm not on the Reich ones, clearly.
 
   
 
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