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Lysander.                                                        200
10 terminators. 2 cyclone                                     460

Librarian.  Terminator armor, SS, Vortex of doom, gate     140
8 assault terminators.  320

10 scouts.    Camocloaks, sniper rifles.                     170
10 scouts.    Camocloaks   sniper rifles.                     170
10 scouts.   Boltguns   Camo cloak Power fist 
                Combiflamer                                     205

7 devastators. 4 missile launchers                                                 182



1847

Mmmm

I can understant the Terminator fever in abnormal contagious right now but tbh this list sound a little fragile for a defensive setup.

Some of yours Scouts, the onyl valid units, will be able to keep an obj (the home base) for a little for sure.

But what about the others obj? In 2/3 of games, even if perfectly played you seriously rist to tie with no others options.

Vanillas need (and can!) abuse of solid vehicles for the defensive situations. Predators, Vindicators, Rifle Dreads...

The Terminators are good, no doubts, but you don't need to spend 2/3 of your points in not valid units that will mostly play statically or walking slowly between the enemy fire.

The 10 scouts w power fist can scout on the edge potentially taking objectives, last turn librarian gates a scout squad to objective. I don't want to take vehicles with all the missile/ las plas spam out there

For the "last chance" tactics grabbin' objectives I take alwais assault marines.

The problem is that Scouts aren't really the bets shock troop to be teleported somewhere. Even with the assault bonuses your Fist risk to be nto enought.

I can understand 2 little unit of 5 scouts to keep a couple of objectives in your table side but my point is that you'll can invest wisely a lot of points you're spending in too much Terminators and too much scouts.

In the Vanilla codex you'll can find a lot of different solution, you'll can pod your army, you'll can saturate the field with fast attack FAST vehicles, you'll can build up a solid support fire footsloggin' line with Devastators and rifle dreads in terrain..

I'm just telling that, in my honest and absolutely personal opinion, wouldn't be so hard kill your troops and over range your Terminators with 2/3 of codexes around.

And obviously in this case in 2/3 of games you'll seriously risk to tie often if not lose by number of obj claimed or contested.

I have to agree, snipers aren't exactly the most scary weapons thanks to Scouts shooting now. Plus having boltguns and a power fist isn't that good as you cannot assault after rapid fire leaving you to be assaulted, take pistols and combat blades so you can assault after

I've played Lysander as an HQ Choice quite often, and he's a great choice but he hinders the army a little bit in the fact that he makes it so they can't run away if you need to. So to counter that, you should have enough firepower to sting your opponents at range and something in the army that makes them afraid to come closer. Tactical Terminators don't offer fear, even though they offer shooting they're a mixed bag with the stormbolters doing nothing if you have to fire the CMLs at a vehicle.

This is the list I run at 1850, and I've found it's very defensive if you put the tac squads in cover and make a gunline. It can also be offensive if you run against a tau army, and need to take the fight to them.

Lysander- 200 points
Librarian- TDA, SS, Null Zone, Gate- 140 points

Terminator Assault Squad- 5x TH/SS- 200 points

Tactical Squad- Flamer, Lascannon, Sarge w/Meltabombs, Razorback Las/plas- 260 points
Tactical Squad- Flamer, Lascannon, Sarge w/Meltabombs, Razorback Las/plas- 260 points
Tactical Squad- Flamer, Lascannon, Sarge w/Meltabombs, Razorback Las/plas- 260 points

Land Speeder- Typhoon ML- 90 points
Land Speeder- Typhoon ML- 90 points
Land Speeder- Typhoon ML- 90 points

Predator- Heavy Bolters- 85 points
Predator- Heavy Bolters- 85 points
Predator- Heavy Bolters- 85 points

Dont you find the typhoons to be easy kill points, I'm going to adepticon and practically all mission are kill points. Also with everybody and their mama bringing sw and missiles it seems I would be down kp quick

I really don't think that all of those scouts are the way to go. I like lone Dragoon's list though. You should be able to keep the speeders out of range to protect them, or reserve them if you aren't going first. If you are, you get quite an alpha on the enemy due to their effective range.

True or False, speeders in that list are easy kill points? False, and here's why.

The first two things to keep in mind about the land speeders is, they're small vehicles, and they are not open topped. Being a small vehicle means something very important, you don't need a lot of cover to get a cover save. Being able to negate 50% of the shots that damage you is a huge boon in keeping these annoying little pests alive. The second part about they are not open topped means unless your opponent is hitting you with AP1 shots, you have as much survivability as a side shot at a chimera. Next to keep in mind is the speeders dual types, fast skimmer. Meaning you have the speed to get the hell out of dodge if your opponent is closing in, and you can ignore terrain in the way. In being able to pop over terrain you all of a sudden are now also in cover because of the speeders small size.

The next part of speeder survivability, maneuverability. If you sit them in the open, and allow your opponent to shoot lascannons at them, those kill points rack up faster than empty plates at an all you can eat buffet. Landspeeders have the speed to be the mosquitos of your army. Small annoying little pests that if they ignore them they'll regret it which can make them a target. If you play smart they will be in a position to maximize their firepower, and minimize the damage potential coming back at them. You don't want to leave them in a position where a las/ac pred can shoot at them, but you want to make sure you can fire. Use them to pick off transports, and make them seem less threatening. Keep in mind, most people play the 24-36 inch weapon game, you can out distance them.

The last point of survivability is in deployment. With the ability to be held back, and show up where you need them the speeders have an incredible amount of flexibility. They can move twelve inches onto the board, and still be a viable anti-vehicle or anti-troop option. With the typhoons I do not recommend deep striking them, as that can lead to bad scatters placing them in the line of fire and since you want to stick and move it's not a good idea. All this boils down to a survivable unit, but there's one last thing that makes them seem less dangerous.... everything else on the table. Your opponent can target a speeder, but it doesn't really lower the overall firepower of the army. In other words, the speeders should be in a position where they can fire and should be out of reprisal, since he can't hit the little bugs he tries for the rest of your forces while the speeders keep dancing around.