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I have been playing marines for about three years, and want to start something new: Tau.
Please tell me what you think of this list, bearing in mind i am new to this army.

HQ

Shas'el
targetting array, PR, MP, hw MT
97

ELITES

3 Crisis Suits
3 PR, 3 MP, 3 hw MT
186

3 Crisis Suits
3 MP, 3 BC, 3 hw MT
150

3 Crisis Suits
3 twin BC, 3 hw MT
126

TROOPS

8 Fire Warriors
Devilfish
disruption pod, sms, targetting array, multi-tracker
200

8 Fire Warriors
80

10 Kroot
5 Hounds
100

FAST ATTACK

8 Pathfinders
Devilfish
disruption pod, sms, targetting array, multi-tracker
216

HEAVY SUPPORT

Hammerhead
disruption pod, multi-tracker, burst cannons, railgun
165

Hammerhead
disruption pod, multi-tracker, burst cannons, railgun
165

Hammerhead
disruption pod, multi-tracker, burst cannons, railgun
165

TOTAL: 1650

Thoughts? (please)

PS: please will someone be so kind as to inform me of all the 'pre-set' XV8 setups, eg fireknife, deathrain etc. I have heard of them...
Also, will my second fire warrior squad be able to use the pathfinders' fish as if it were theirs?

Thanks

3x Hanmmer heads Is a good choice, Id personaly have more fire warriors.

But thats just me

How would you play the fire warriors? Slogging or Mounted or Other?

Great improvements, only a couple tweaks left:

adielubbe wrote:3 Crisis Suits
3 twin BC, 3 hw MT

Without being Team Leaders, they cannot get access to that Wargear column, thus the hwMultiTracker. And there can be only one Team Leader per unit. That said, they don't *need* a MT to fire a TwinLinked weapon, as it only counts as one for shooting. *THAT* said, , a TL-BC suit is kind of a waste of a 'Suit's potential. The Deathrain, TL-MP+flamer, or just TL-MP & BSF is the more popular and useful (pops transports decently) option for Twin-Linked Weps in suits.

adielubbe wrote:PS: please will someone be so kind as to inform me of all the 'pre-set' XV8 setups, eg fireknife, deathrain etc. I have heard of them...
Thanks

Look for yourself: http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=45837 I typed "40k Crisis Suit names" on the SEARCH.

adielubbe wrote:Also, will my second fire warrior squad be able to use the pathfinders' fish as if it were theirs?

Yes, but they won't be able to *start* in the d'fish, but on your first turn, have up embark and you're good to go.

The rest of you list is in good shape. Play it.

Here's a nice link for the Tau battlesuit slang: http://secondsphere.org/index.php?topic=600.0

Fireknife and Deathrain are the only ones I ever see anyone use with regularity, and I've seen "Deathrain" used for twin missile pods with flamers and for twin pods with a targeting array. Go figure.

Anyway, your army looks like it has a decent core going, but there are a few things I'd switch up.

1. I'm not a big fan of burst cannons on Crisis suits. On the missile pod guys, you're probably better off switching to one of the Deathrain setups. I prefer using flamers over targeting arrays, but either is fine. The twin burst cannon guys need to go. Tau have S5 AP5 shots galore, so just slap in a bunch more Fire Warriors if that's all you want. You also have a ton of crowd control with 3 railheads, so don't worry too much about that. Suits are your opportunity to get some pretty sexy weapons, so take advantage. In your case, you might want something with a plasma rifle for additional marine control.

2. I prefer to keep my Devilfish simple: d-pod and go. They're ludicrously overcosted by 5th ed standards to begin with, and I don't find the upgrade from 2 gun drones to smart missiles worth the points. In the end, it's a personal preference thing.

3. I'd go with minimal 6-man Fire Warrior squads. They really aren't very good, but you have to have troops.

4. Chances are pretty good you'll be using the Pathfinders to boost the Shas'el and the Fireknife unti he's with to get those plasma hits, so he doesn't really need the targeting array.

5. I have a huge hard-on for Broadsides. There is absolutely nothing at all wrong with Hammerheads, but I, personally, would find a way to get a decked-out unit of them in 1650 points. If you like the Hammerheads, though, don't change a thing.

6. Speaking of Hammerheads, I like putting target locks on them so my burst cannons don't have to shoot at a Land Raider. If you don't have the points for that, don't sweat it.

Also, will my second fire warrior squad be able to use the pathfinders' fish as if it were theirs?

Yes, they will, but they won't be able to deploy in it. They'll have to start next to it then embark on your first turn.

Thanks guys .
Ive made changes, what do you think now?

HQ

Shas'el (fireknife)
PR, MP, multi-tracker
87

ELITES

3 Crisis Suits (fireknife)
3 PR, 3 MP, 3 multi-tracker
186

3 Crisis Suits (helios)
3 PR, 3 FB, 3 multi-tracker
186

3 Crisis Suits (deathrain)
3 twin MP, 3 flamers
141

TROOPS

8 Fire Warriors
Devilfish
disruption pod, sms, targetting array, multi-tracker
200

8 Fire Warriors
80

10 Kroot
5 Hounds
100

FAST ATTACK

8 Pathfinders
Devilfish
decoy launchers, disruption pod, sms, multi-tracker
216

HEAVY SUPPORT

Hammerhead
disruption pod, multi-tracker, burst cannons, ion cannon
130

Hammerhead
disruption pod, multi-tracker, burst cannons, ion cannon
130

2 Broadsides
2 advanced stabilisation systems
160

TOTAL: 1616

As you see, i have 34 points remaining. What should i do? More bodies? More toys?...
What do you guys think of the updated list?
I have ionheads now...

Thanks

I like this list. With the extra points, you could give two shield drones to your broadsides, after making one team leader. But this would push you 1 point over.

I think I'd spring for some Shield Drones on your Broadsides. Those extra wounds can make all the difference, and since they're your only ranged source of anti-tank fire, they're going to be lascannon magnets. I'd also drop a couple Fire Warriors for Gun Drones on the Helios suits since those are going to be targeted pretty heavily, as well.

I like ion cannons a lot, so I'm glad you're planning to run a couple. Let us know how they work out.

Huh. You've gone away from what I thought was great.

adielubbe wrote:Shas'el (fireknife PR, MP, multi-tracker

I'd try to find the points to get the Target Array back in.

adielubbe wrote:Devilfish decoy launchers, disruption pod, sms, multi-tracker

Decoy Launchers? No, no, a Target Array to make its 7 shots hit better. Decoy Launchers are pretty worthless in 5e.

adielubbe wrote:2 Broadsides 2 advanced stabilisation systems

The Bringer is right, add Team Leader, hwDrone Controler and 2 Shield Drones. Then a Bonding Knife.

adielubbe wrote:I have ionheads now..Thanks

Go back to Railheads:
1. 5e's Cover Saves hamper the IonCannon's great AP
2. There's a lot more marine "rhino drive bys" meaning, a rhino rolls up, dumps its crew and they do some Rapid Fire fun, right? They'll be all nice and clumped up because they're still hugging their rhino, ideal for the RG's submunition large blast marker, yielding a lot more hits and wounds, and dead marines than the Ion Cannon will yield. That's why it has pretty much disappeared in 5e.

You might be looking at a 1750 list.

i play tau and when you markerlight some thin g 8times it is a little over kill so i put my parthfinders in two units andthen you have two marker beacon devilfish for deepstriking crisis suits.
But you do what you want...

Thanks for the feedback guys

For anti-tank i planned it as follows:
broadsides for long-range anti-anything
missile pods and ion cannons for anti-transport/light/MCs
fusion blasters for anti-deepstrikers/dreads/MCs

Railheads are tempting, its just their damn price tag...

Why will helios be so heavily targeted?

Does anyone use blacksun filters, or is acute senses enough for DOW deployment?

Shields on the broadsides is probably a good idea. I could drop one hound...

Im not sure about Targetting array on the HQ, is it not the case that he will be using markerlights anyway?

My apologies about the decoy launchers, i think it was a typo -should definatly rather be targetting array.

How many fire warriors should be placed in a devilfish? i have a feeling 6 is too few, or am i wrong? They will obviously need to capture objectives...

The splitting of the pathfinders is interesting, either way i will have two devilfish.
It will offer more targets for my opponent as well as offer sight over more of the table, but also easy killpoints.
In DOW i will also be unable to deploy a FW squad in a fish, in my current list, atleast i can do that.
Either way, i will have 4 markerlight hits per turn on average.
Im not sure if i will use the marker beacon rule much, this list was not designed to have reserves.
Hmmm, what to do?

adielubbe wrote:Railheads are tempting, its just their damn price tag...

It's totally worth it though, Railheads are one of Tau's best units.

adielubbe wrote:Why will helios be so heavily targeted?

Because of their awesome firepower. If you get in rapid fire range, you'll be firing 9 shots that deny all armor saves. That's terrifying for MEQs. Granted, some models have invuln saves, but that's still a lot of shots that are automatic wounds on a 2+. The FBs may even cause instant death on a lot of things, too.

adielubbe wrote:Does anyone use blacksun filters, or is acute senses enough for DOW deployment?

I run them in higher point games, but I might throw one in if I have a spare 3-5 points leftover and I can't squeeze in anything else of value. Other than that, no, I don't normally run them.

adielubbe wrote:Shields on the broadsides is probably a good idea. I could drop one hound...

Very good idea.

adielubbe wrote:Im not sure about Targetting array on the HQ, is it not the case that he will be using markerlights anyway?

You may want to use the markerlights for other things, like taking away cover saves or upping the BS of another unit besides the HQ. I run mine with a Targeting Array and it's nice to have 1 guy firing above BS4.

adielubbe wrote:How many fire warriors should be placed in a devilfish? i have a feeling 6 is too few, or am i wrong? They will obviously need to capture objectives...

I run squads of 8 in my 1500 list and I've found them to be pretty effective. That's a matter of preference if you ask me. Some people like the large volume of shots from 12 FWs, others like to take the bare minimum just to have a scoring unit, then others (like me) like the medium sized unit to kind of get the nice volume of shots without dumping 30-40 extra points into a mediocre-at-best troops choice.

adielubbe wrote:The splitting of the pathfinders is interesting, either way i will have two devilfish.
It will offer more targets for my opponent as well as offer sight over more of the table, but also easy killpoints.
In DOW i will also be unable to deploy a FW squad in a fish, in my current list, atleast i can do that.
Either way, i will have 4 markerlight hits per turn on average.
Im not sure if i will use the marker beacon rule much, this list was not designed to have reserves.
Hmmm, what to do?

I would leave them in 1 squad. You're right, they're easy KPs unless you put them in cover (I had a unit last up through turn 5 in cover). Plus I think Tau do better when they concentrate their firepower. If you have all 8 markerlights firing at 1 unit, if you get a crappy roll, you're more likely to still get the results you want. And you're right, deploying FWs in a fish is better. They live a lot longer and move a lot further.

As for list suggestions, +1 to everything Brothererekose said.

Wow , thanks guys, you are truly helping me a great deal!

Here is an updated list with a lot of advice incorperated, let me know what you think please:

HQ

Shas'el (fireknife)
PR, MP, targetting array, hw multi-tracker
97

ELITES

3 Crisis Suits (fireknife)
3 PR, 3 MP, 3 multi-tracker
186

3 Crisis Suits (helios)
3 PR, 3 FB, 3 multi-tracker
186

2 Crisis Suits (deathrain)
2 twin MP, 2 flamers
94

TROOPS

8 Fire Warriors
Devilfish
disruption pod, sms, targetting array, multi-tracker
200

8 Fire Warriors
80

10 Kroot
5 Hounds
100

FAST ATTACK

8 Pathfinders
Devilfish
disruption pod, sms, targetting array, multi-tracker
216

HEAVY SUPPORT

Hammerhead
disruption pod, multi-tracker, burst cannons, railgun
165

Hammerhead
disruption pod, multi-tracker, burst cannons, ion cannon
130

2 Broadsides
2 advanced stabilisation systems, team leader, 2 shield drones
195

TOTAL: 1649

I basically dropped one deathrain suit, and replaced an ion cannon with a railgun and added shields to the XV88s.

Did you include Targeting Array on the HQ? Your points suggest you did, but it isn't listed.

Either way I think you have a really solid list. Test it out and see what you think!

I'm gonna try that as well^^ I like what came out of this list

firemind wrote:Did you include Targeting Array on the HQ? Your points suggest you did, but it isn't listed.

I did. Thank you for pointing it out. Fixed it.

Awesome. The list is ready, now i just have to buy, build, paint and play!

Thank you so much for all the help guys, this thread has saved me a lot of time and money.

List seems pretty solid, though the point size seems a bit strange, haven't played a 1650 pt game before, but to each their own. It seems a very mobile force, which is a good way to play Tau. I'd probably expand the Kroot a little if you want to have them in there. It might be the Ork in me, but having more Kroot seems a good idea since they are not a elite fighting force, but can still bring some hurt in larger numbers.

Haha , you're not the first person to say that.
At the moment 1650 is the standard army size in the Cape Town scene -strange i know.