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So, thinking more about my escalation to 1500 points, I've decided on the theme I want. It's now down to just a couple of choices...

A.)

CCS, MoO, lascannon, meltabombs, standard

Stormies, 2x melta
Stormies, 2x melta

PCS, lascannon
21-dude power blob with 2x melta
21-dude power blob with 2x melta

PCS, lascannon
21-dude power blob with 2x melta
21-dude power blob with 2x melta
3x lascannon HWS
3x autocannon HWS
3x autocannon HWS
3x autocannon HWS


B.)

CCS, MoO, lascannon, power weapon, standard

Stormies, 2x plasma
Stormies, 2x plasma

PCS, missile launcher
21-dude power blob with 2x melta
21-dude power blob with 2x melta

PCS, missile launcher
21-dude power blob with 2x melta
21-dude power blob with 2x melta
3x lascannon HWS
3x lascannon HWS
3x lascannon HWS

C.)

CCS, MoO, lascannon, power weapon, meltabombs, standard

Stormies, 2x plasma
Stormies, 2x plasma

PCS, lascannon
21-dude power blob with 2x melta
21-dude power blob with 2x melta

PCS, lascannon
21-dude power blob with 2x melta
21-dude power blob with 2x melta
3x autocannon HWS
3x autocannon HWS
3x autocannon HWS
3x autocannon HWS

Alternate ideas include changing list C so that it has melta vets, dropping the power weapon in the CCS and upgrading 2 of the autocannons to missile launchers or something.

What do you think?

A, except I would give the PCS flamers and send them forward with the infantry, instead of giving them lascannons.

A.)

you have a good weapon choice between variability and redundancy there.
Actually in your list I would think about storm troopers with plasmaguns. Because your anti tank is pretty good anyways and with plasmaguns they can also infiltrate for more tactical flexibility.
Is Al'Rahem forbidden? I miss him in your lists

Wich opponents do you still have to face? If you got three games to go and 2 are dark or eldar. Then the choice of list could be affected.

But at first glance i would say: list A

edit: wrong list letter

At first glance I would say list C, but thats mainly because I'm partial to autocannons

Well, I don't want to get too list tailorey here. For my convenience, I couldn't even do this well anyways, given that there is a horde/mech guy, a lots of toys (including MCs) guy, and a mech termiantor guy. That's a pretty broad spread.

I guess my biggest concern is in the middle. Sort of an AV12/MC sort of a thing. Really, it's why there are so many lascannons, autocannons, and plasma stormies, as they both hit this mid range while still being decent against other things.

-Nazdreg- wrote:Is Al'Rahem forbidden? I miss him in your lists

No, I'm just running without him for awhile. It lets me see what guard can do without him.

-Nazdreg- wrote:Actually in your list I would think about storm troopers with plasmaguns. Because your anti tank is pretty good anyways and with plasmaguns they can also infiltrate for more tactical flexibility.

I actually prefer stormies with plasma as well, but there is simply no way to make plasma stormies work in list A. It's actually one of my stronger deterrents from said list (that and the modelling aspect - I've been spending a month making nothing but gunners and gun chassis...).

There's something more comforting about list B, as it keeps plasma and lascannons are killier (especially against AV12 and FNP termies), but puts out slightly less firepower over all, and I like list C as it's insane, but possibly lacking in the anti-heavy vehicle department.

Personally I like C, but I would make slight changes too it.

CCS- LC, Standard, MoO, Melta Bombs

PCS 1- AC
PCS 2- AC
Change one HWT to 3xLC.

I never take more lascannon teams than I have available orders. Without the twin linking I prefer the safety of extra shots on the autocannons.

With 4 HWS and 4 power blobs I would be tempted to drop in another CCS in for the security of 2 extra orders, maybe instead of some stormies. Without the suicide melta teams I thnk you do then need lascannon teams for tank killing in T1.

:-) Well, given I'm one of the lads you might be facing... The Las Cannon teams would cause my current army the most trouble (Deathwing), but given the spread of armies in our league A looks pretty good, but prett much any of them would work pretty well...

Well, see I was thinking about that, though. If your termies come with storm shields, lascannons aren't actually all that much better, even including the fact that you're getting FNP against the autocannon. If you're not bringing apothecaries in everything, then the autocannon is definitely better against termies (or, better put, they're both awful, but autocannons cost less).

After a lot of thought, I think I'm actually going to work for a C-like option. Having meltaguns everywhere in the blobs, and having my CCS the way it is (along with a few spare lascannons), will probably be enough anti-AV14 for the roughly 0 pieces of AV14 I'm likely to run across.

Plus... it's the easiest for me to model wysiwyg...

List C looks pretty good, although I would swap out some of the AO for some missile launchers for that higher str. shot. Also Melta Vets would be nice. Taking some Melta away from the blob and giving it to the Vets gives you some better shooters for such weapons. The blob would act as the Vets cover until it gets close enough to it's intended target.

I think I like B best, but I would probably move the plasma to the CCS and go back to melta on the Stormies.

With the DA, only one squad can have the Apothecary, so not much FnP... But the 2+ armor save is what I'm looking more at... With the Loganwing or any of the Chaos lads, a bit more variable :-) But I have been seeing a LOT more Terminators locally... Facing DA or IG, being able to deal with the lighter vehicles with your AC or better yet LC is huge :-) Facing the Necrons... Well, not sure what you'll do against that if you don't keep a few LC around...

pzbw7z wrote:I think I like B best, but I would probably move the plasma to the CCS and go back to melta on the Stormies.

I like the idea of melta stormies, but I'm getting pretty attached to my LC+MoO CCS. I ran my CCS with special weapons for a pretty long time and they never did anything...

pchappel wrote:With the DA, only one squad can have the Apothecary, so not much FnP... But the 2+ armor save is what I'm looking more at... With the Loganwing or any of the Chaos lads, a bit more variable :-) But I have been seeing a LOT more Terminators locally... Facing DA or IG, being able to deal with the lighter vehicles with your AC or better yet LC is huge :-) Facing the Necrons... Well, not sure what you'll do against that if you don't keep a few LC around...

Well, with stormshields, the 2+ save is only worsened to a 3++ against lascannons. As they both wound on 2+, the lascannon offers twice the failed saves, but half the shots. Honestly, though, despite the increase in terminators, I'm not particularly concerned, as power blobs are actually pretty decent against them. I haven't faced off against a huge amount of them yet, but so far they've done well. You may well prove me wrong, though.

As for necron... yeah... That you need to bring certain weapons JUST to handle one army's specific vehicle is more than somewhat obnoxious. On the off-chance that I need to play squirrel, I'll just keep list B in my pocket. Otherwise, a MoO and a lascannon with BiD shouldn't be too bad against huge targets like land raiders and monoliths, right?

As for AV12, for how crappy autocannons are against it, redoing the math shows how unfortunately similarly crappy lascannons are. Really, I don't think I have a serious chance against AV12 apart from meltaguns and close combat...

:-) Yes, I typed DA, meant DE... I think you are selling the AC a bit short, I've had some amazing luck with mine against a lot of the local forces, especially the Eldar/DE... But then I've been bringing the MoO in pretty much every IG game despite a lot of folks here saying they're "not good"... Dunno, the 30 point upgrade usually hits something :-)

pchappel wrote: I've had some amazing luck

Yeah, see, that's where we differ. I'm currently on 88 autocannon shots without a vehicle wrecked result, and that's against AV10/11, sometimes twin-linked, sometimes open-topped. That, assuming equal luck, the lascannon and autocannon should do about the same to AV12 is disheartening, at least with regard to my regard for lascannons. Likewise when you consider them against Tzeentch demon princes...

As for the MoO, the reason why I currently have him in my list is because I saw you hit something you pointed at once with him, which reminded me that he gets to reduce BS4 from his scatter, which made me redo the math, which made me decide to give him a try.

So far, he hasn't disappointed, especially for his cost. Plus, I get to draw little shell bursts on my battle report pictures

B.2.)

CCS, MoO, lascannon, power weapon, standard

Stormies, 2x plasma
Stormies, 2x plasma

PCS, missile launcher
21-dude power blob with 2x melta
21-dude power blob with 2x melta

PCS, missile launcher
21-dude power blob with 2x melta
21-dude power blob with 2x melta
3x lascannon HWS
3x lascannon HWS
3x autocannon HWS

Leaving you 30 pts. 7 lascannons/8 melta is good for the heavy work, you just need a little extra for mech - as in the 2x ML's and 3xAC's. Some GL's in the PCS's would be another anti-mech layer.

Thats better

So, I'm still going to be using a 3-blob version of list C tonight, but I just had another idea for the 1500...


D.)

CCS, MoO, lascannon, sniper rifle

Stormies, 2x melta
Stormies, 2x melta

PCS, power fist, commissar with power fist
21-dude power blob with 2x melta
21-dude power blob with 2x melta

PCS, power fist, commissar with power fist
21-dude power blob with 2x melta
21-dude power blob with 2x melta
3x lascannon HWS
3x autocannon HWS
3x autocannon HWS

Because now my opponents would be stuck between shooting at HWSs to avoid getting their vehicles killed, and the PCSs, who lay down 6 power fist attacks on the charge apiece.

Crazy. I likey.

PF on guards are quite effective! Especially in blobs that can absorb the wounds until the PFs go, I like!

What is the math on a PF/PW comparison vs MEQ? I am just curious...

D is where it's at Ros. I think your jo's should be right in there with the blobs, never tempted to stay still for a potshot. All three of the jo's orders buff the blobs nicely. 6 PF's replaces the 3 lascannons nicely, and you've still got two batteries of AC's to help with mech. It's good and fluffy to have daxos sending out the juniors for the assault while he manages from the firebase.

Refined!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
With 3+ HWS, I'd be thinking about what the Lord Commissar can do for them in further escalation...

Well, looks like I've struck upon something positive, then!

MadMaverick76 wrote:What is the math on a PF/PW comparison vs MEQ? I am just curious...

I didn't bother, actually. Back in the day, I ran a power weapon SO with a eviscerator priest. I was so darn sick of the priest mega-chopping and the SO doing virtually nothing that I coughed up the points to give old Melchoir a power fist. I never looked back.

My dislike for power weapons in power blobs is only tempered by the fact that I get just so many darn attacks with them over time. A PCS, however, doesn't have that kind of staying power, so I'd really need to do the damage up front, hence the fists.

murdog wrote:D is where it's at Ros. I think your jo's should be right in there with the blobs, never tempted to stay still for a potshot.

You know, I've actually been pretty impressed with my pot-shotting PCSs over the past couple of games. They've definitely been doing more than they ever did back in their melta configuration.

Of course, that shouldn't prevent me from trying to do something even better.

murdog wrote:
It's good and fluffy to have daxos sending out the juniors for the assault while he manages from the firebase.

Refined!

lol!

I thought I was actually being rather fluffy with Daxos keeping all of his officers safe around him while he sent forth his enlisted me to their utter doom, but putting it this way looks even fluffier.

"Simply put, my fellow officers and colleagues most congenial, one can never attain a level of fieldcraft so superior as my own without personally risking one's all to test one's bravery and other masculine values. Now get in there and rough them up, and promptly, if you please. Pay me no mind, I'll be right behind you targeting artillery fire onto the foes you will be racing towards. Certainly such a thing as this greatly builds one's character.

Now, off you go. I've got to finish my second morning tea and preform my voice lessons in preparation for issuing orders. Promotions for all survivors, hurrah!"

murdog wrote:With 3+ HWS, I'd be thinking about what the Lord Commissar can do for them in further escalation...

Yeah, actually, the best I can figure for the jump to 1850 is to throw in my smartly dressed brute brigade...

MadMaverick76 wrote:PF on guards are quite effective! Especially in blobs that can absorb the wounds until the PFs go, I like!

What is the math on a PF/PW comparison vs MEQ? I am just curious...

Blobs can't have power fists. Neither sergeants nor Commissars in Infantry squads can get them. Only command squads get fists.

pzbw7z wrote:

MadMaverick76 wrote:PF on guards are quite effective! Especially in blobs that can absorb the wounds until the PFs go, I like!

What is the math on a PF/PW comparison vs MEQ? I am just curious...

Blobs can't have power fists. Neither sergeants nor Commissars in Infantry squads can get them. Only command squads get fists.

I know that, thus my reference included the use of a PCS/Commissar or Lord Commissar even.

::edited for rudeness::

Well, we do tend to run our PCS a lot differently, but when I go for a "more aggressive" PCS, I used to run with GL's and the PF's for the LT/Commissar... Not the cheapest, and people tended to "focus" on that squad a LOT more in HtH... More recently I have been running it "Air Assault" with the flamers out of the Vendetta/Valkyrie hitting the backfield.... :-) Think yours works quite well, but those PF's are a LOT easier to "pick" out of the mob if your opponant is paying attention...

Hey Ailaros,
I was away from gaming for a while, and like an absolute nutter gamer have worked my way through all of your past battle reports over the last week.

I'd advise against the PF JO's - the squad's just too small and fragile to risk spending those points on them, and a single casual heavy bolter, frag missile or othersuch anti-inf weapon can obliterate your hopes for using them - and I've seen how poorly your rolls have been this last while for morale tests, so don't go thinking the commissar won't end up shooting the JO first chance he gets

Also, I'd definitely suggest bringing your Lord Commissar back into the fight. With all those HW squads in play, all clustered together, surely you fancy giving them LD10 just for the privilege of being within 6" of a gentleman with a megaphone? I think it also suits your more refined image of your CCS, to have him relaying orders around your firebase for you. I know you love running him with your Ogryn, but as you said you were going to try out new things with this list, and it's the perfect use of 70 points to get better use out of your HWS.

Likewise, and you might hate me for saying this, but perhaps this escalation league is a good time to try out Creed. With 4 orders out to 24" instead of 2 at 12", he's 4 times more effective than a regular SO in exactly the role you're using your CCS for now, and can control all those HWS (that now have LD10!) happily. Plus, you can give your power blobs furious charge & fearless, for that extra edge, and even give one of them a scout move or an outflank, to hark back to your Al'Rahem days and give you more mobility. Against that tau gunline, he'd have been amazing.

I know this isn't a proper response to your OP, but it's my feedback from the last 20 battle reports you've posted, and I've got to post it somewhere (and find someone else that does IG horde batreps to the same standard).

Regards,
Cap'n R