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..I've had a few questions come up in the last few games so I thought I'd put them to bed

1. If a squad inside a transport takes 25% damage (gets hot from plasma for example) do they take a morale test? We said no because you don't take morale tests inside vehicles.

2. If ordnance is inside the minimum range and cannot fire does this means it auto misses as it was measured to see if it was inside the minimum range of it doesn't fire at all? We rule it doesn't fire at all so in a Manticores case doesn't take a shot up.

3. I swear I've seen it some where but wargear is used when the model carrying it is alive, if the model dies then you cannot use it i.e Big Mek and Boyz take wounds Big Mek gets saved first and dies, as the Big Mek is dead would the Boyz get cover? We said no as the Big Mek is a dead man.

1. You do have to take a moral test. There's nothing I'm aware of that makes squads inside transports immune to moral, you just hardly ever see it. If you fail the moral test, you either disembark and run or are Trapped! and destroyed. The rulebook isn't clear on this. (Commence week long heated argument)

2. It's not Ordinance that's the issue. Barrage weapons sometimes have a minimum range. If you are within the minimum range, the shot misses automatically but still fires. So, it would use up a limited ammo gun or trigger Get's Hot!. Keep in mind, almost all barrage weapons can fire directly, which removes the minimum range restriction (I don't know of the top of my head if the Manticore can fire directly.

3. You are correct. Once the Big Mek dies, his KFF is no longer active. But, all shooting is resolved simultaneously from a squad, so just because you roll the Big Mek's failed save first does not mean the rest of the wounds don't get the benefit of cover. It takes the next squad shooting to not have the cover save.

1. I'll wait and see what others say as that's a major problem units walking out their own tank. Doubt it would happen, really.

2. I thought it would auto miss just as things auto miss when out of range or a ordnance scatters away. Manticore can fire directly btw.

3. I swar I've seen a rule which says when you come to use the wargear, so Big Mek dies he's gone and you then go to roll the cover saves from the KFF but you can't as it's not there, I swear I read it's at the time you come to use it so if a Priest dies in a Angel squad you don't get feel no pain if he dies first because he's not there - they might be shot at the same time but not dying at the same time if that makes sense.

There are no rules for fleeing from a vehicle. I doubt there has been a consensus reached on the subject but I can't give you an answer.

As for shooting meks, you roll to hit with the whole squad, wound and allocate, save then remove casualties so the boys should get a save until the next unit shoots them.

Some abilities are specifically worded as "in range at the start of turn" or similar so would have effects lasting after a model dies.

All very good questions, and somewhat obscure (even though the first one is asked quite a bit). It's refreshing though to see some new questions.

mercer wrote:..I've had a few questions come up in the last few games so I thought I'd put them to bed

1. If a squad inside a transport takes 25% damage (gets hot from plasma for example) do they take a morale test? We said no because you don't take morale tests inside vehicles.

I don't think anyone has ever found a way to answer this completely, but I rule it as no. The reason is because they can't fall back, as they can only disembark when the rules allow (and that would be during their normal move or when the vehicle is destroyed). And rather than going with the extreme (if they can't fall back, they're destroyed) I think it's easier to rule that they don't fall back.

Although, now that I say that, I feel like maybe it SHOULD be ruled that they take a morale test, and if they fail they're destroyed, but... I don't want to think that.

2. If ordnance is inside the minimum range and cannot fire does this means it auto misses as it was measured to see if it was inside the minimum range of it doesn't fire at all? We rule it doesn't fire at all so in a Manticores case doesn't take a shot up.

As you've already measured, you've declared that they've fired. Every time a limited ammunition weapon fires, it uses up a shot. It's the same principle as firing a combi-melta and discovering that you are short on range.

3. I swear I've seen it some where but wargear is used when the model carrying it is alive, if the model dies then you cannot use it i.e Big Mek and Boyz take wounds Big Mek gets saved first and dies, as the Big Mek is dead would the Boyz get cover? We said no as the Big Mek is a dead man.

In this particular case you are incorrect. All of the shooting from a particular unit happens simultaneously, and all of the wounds are resolved simultaneously. The Big Mek doesn't die any earlier than any of the Boyz, so the Boyz would get the cover save. However, if another unit were to fire at the Boyz squad (with a now dead Big Mek) they would not receive the bonus that the Big Mek provides, as he is not alive when the step for take saves occurs.

Same thing happens if you shooting into a squad with a model that gives Feel No Pain. If you choose to roll the FNP-giver first, you don't lose FNP for that round of saves. Of course, this could lead to arguments, so it's easier to roll them last. But the rules still say that the Big Mek's save will last long enough for everyone.

somerandomdude wrote:All of the shooting happens simultaneously, and all of the wounds are resolved simultaneously.

Individual units are worked out one at a time to stop two different units killing the same people over and over. I'm not aware of anything that permits unit wide special abilities to continue to the end of the turn unless specifically stated.

Happy to be proven wrong if these is such a rule!

Edit: rereading your post, random dude, I don't think you are referring to 'the turn' when you say 'round', in which case we agree.

All of a particular unit's shooting is simultaneous, not all shooting from every unit.

Soup and a roll wrote:

somerandomdude wrote:All of the shooting happens simultaneously, and all of the wounds are resolved simultaneously.

Individual units are worked out one at a time to stop two different units killing the same people over and over. I'm not aware of anything that permits unit wide special abilities to continue to the end of the turn unless specifically stated.

happy to be proven wrong if these is such a rule!

I can see why you wrote what you did (as it is correct) and why you quoted me (as my quote can be read as saying something I did not intend). I will edit my post to make it more clear, but I was talking about "All of the shooting [in the context of this particular question] happens simultaneously." By this, I mean the volley of shots that caused the Big Mek to die.

1. Strictly you must take the test, but failing causes a problem as has been noted. There is NO rule, anywhere, that says embarked units cannot take morale checks

2. You declare you are firing, your number of available shots decreases immediately. If you then find out that your shot automatically misses you are out of luck, you dont get the shot back

3. All shooting from one squad is simultaneoues, to hit, to wound and taking saves. There is no Order of Operation.

You may be thinking of a Necron Lord with res orb; after he is downed noone benefits from the res orb

2. Anotyher example is 'Gets hot' weaponry. Out of range, you still have to roll to see if it gets hot. Because it fired. Same thing for the Manticore. Out of range and automiss, too bad, you still fired.

nosferatu1001 wrote:1. Strictly you must take the test, but failing causes a problem as has been noted. There is NO rule, anywhere, that says embarked units cannot take morale checks

Agreed. And there's no provision for them to disembark at any time other than in their own movement phase. So the rules break. I also agree with somrandomdude, though, that I can't really accept that a unit is intended to be destroyed by the Trapped rule just because they're embarked. So the most common way to play it that I see is just to ignore the casualty and not take a test.

nosferatu1001 wrote:2. You declare you are firing, your number of available shots decreases immediately. If you then find out that your shot automatically misses you are out of luck, you dont get the shot back

Agreed.

nosferatu1001 wrote:3. All shooting from one squad is simultaneoues, to hit, to wound and taking saves. There is no Order of Operation.

You may be thinking of a Necron Lord with res orb; after he is downed noone benefits from the res orb

Mercer, the order of operations you're thinking of with the priest and FNP is in assault- in assault there is an order of operations. Each Initiative count is resolved sequentially, with the attacks happening within that step being considered simultaneous. So if an IC with I5 kills a priest during the I5 step, the FNP benefit will be gone at I4 when the regular dudes in the IC's squad are probably attacking. But if there were some I5 non-PW attacks happening at the same time as the IC (say a unit with Furious Assault charged in alongside), the FNP would still apply against them, since I5 is all simultaneous.

With shooting, all shooting from a given unit is considered to be simultaneous. So if a big mek with KFF dies from a given unit's shooting, the KFF will still apply against that unit's shooting. However once your opponent moves on his next firing unit, the KFF is gone.