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This came up a few times in my last game. A Carnifex was half in the front arc and side arc of a Battlewagon, what side can it fire at and would there be any cover saves? Another time it was mostly in the side arc but still in the front so we did 4+ cover on it.

Any ideas?

No cover saves; you only get a cover save when you cannot see the side you are in at all.

If it is truly even between the two sides, then 4+ it. If you are more in one side than the other then you are in that side.

Well I was thinking cover save because of that 3+ thing if in the other facing arc.

Seems like split even 4+ is the way forward and majority is fair enough.

You only give a 3+ cover save if you cannot see any part of the facing you are in, but can see another facing. You shoot the facing you can see, but the opponent gets a 3+ cover save against it.

Here's how a 3+ cover save works:

--C




-----WWWW
-----BBBB
-----BBBB
-----BBBB
-----BBBB

The (C)arnifex is clearly in the front arc of the (B)attlewagon, but there is a (W)all blocking the vehicle entirely. The only part of the vehicle that the Carnifex can see is the side, which is not the arc that his attack would normally be resolved against, so a 3+ save is granted. Also note that the Carnifex isn't even straddling the line to determine which arc he is in. This is important, because it shows that the rule isn't dependent on a situation like the one you presented in the original post.

This is a completely different situation.

C
--\
---\
----\
-----BBBB
-----BBBB
-----BBBB
-----BBBB

The dashes signify the break between the front arc and the side arc (approximation). While you are in both arcs, there isn't a sufficient amount of the battlewagon being obscured, so there would be no cover save, no matter which arc you were firing into. As for determining which arc you do fire into, as nos mentioned, you have to determine which side has a majority of the model in it, and if you can't, you'll have to roll off. Considering how difficult it is to really estimate the arc on some vehicles (especially Eldar ones as they are round) you may have to 4+ in a lot of these borderline situations.

I know how 3+ cover save works guys...that's not my question or my point.

the answer is you dice off for which arc you are in, determine cover as normal. if you happen to end up in the arc that is hidden completely by cover then you shoot at the other arc, but it's a 3+ save.

mercer wrote:I know how 3+ cover save works guys...that's not my question or my point.

Nos and I both answered your question (check which arc has the model in it, and if you can't determine then "4+ it", which is another way to say roll off on it).

As for the 3+ cover save, I (and nos) don't think you do know how it works, because you said that had an influence on how you decided to play it. That's why I took the time to diagram it for you, in order to enlighten you.

You only (ONLY) get a cover save on a vehicle if the arc you are firing into counts as obscured (or, and this is debateable, if some sort of power "gives" something a cover save).

mercer wrote:I know how 3+ cover save works guys...that's not my question or my point.

There's no possibility of generating a cover save - what was suggested by "4+ it" was e.g. 1-3 front armour 4-6 side armour.

For a non-vehicle model, all LoS is determined from the eyes. If the carnifex's head was exactly on the line between facings then randomly determine which facing it was in.

somerandomdude wrote:

mercer wrote:I know how 3+ cover save works guys...that's not my question or my point.

Nos and I both answered your question (check which arc has the model in it, and if you can't determine then "4+ it", which is another way to say roll off on it).

As for the 3+ cover save, I (and nos) don't think you do know how it works, because you said that had an influence on how you decided to play it. That's why I took the time to diagram it for you, in order to enlighten you.

You only (ONLY) get a cover save on a vehicle if the arc you are firing into counts as obscured (or, and this is debateable, if some sort of power "gives" something a cover save).

You are correct I have been playing the 3+ cover save wrong thanks to some rule shafting (or misunderstanding), I was told if you're in say the front facing arc but can see the side and then fire at the side arc then the vehicle gets a 3+ cover save. Reading the rules the facing arc the models need to be in has to be totalled covered; this we never played this way.

So looking at the rules correctly models can only fire at the arc they're in because it says shots coming from that arc, so if firing at the front arc and can see the side arc shots are still resolved against the front arc because models are in that arc.

Scott-S6 wrote:

mercer wrote:I know how 3+ cover save works guys...that's not my question or my point.

There's no possibility of generating a cover save - what was suggested by "4+ it" was e.g. 1-3 front armour 4-6 side armour.

For a non-vehicle model, all LoS is determined from the eyes. If the carnifex's head was exactly on the line between facings then randomly determine which facing it was in.

in the case where a single model is actually on the line for a side or front shot and the model is not clearly more to one side then dice off 4+ for the side that is hit.

unless there is actual cover where the vehicle would get a normal obscured cover save the vehicle would not get the cover save.