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What happened to them?
I hear from "Rough Trader" that you can actually buy one of these, but they are so powerful that can blow up a planet.
I wonder, if they exist why don't Imperium use them. Like today's tactical nuke use?

Because they're dirty bombs. Why leave a planet a deadly soup of radiation when you can use magma cannons, lance batteries and kinetic weapons to wipe it out and start using it yourself?

Scorched earth is a last option.

Atomic bombs are obsolete. Cyclonic torpedoes, virus bombs, three stage torpedoes are the weapons of mass destruction now. An atom bomb couldn't hold a candle to any of these. Not to mention these are "clean" and don't produce radiation.

I would say that the Imperium doesn't use them for multiple reasons. They're expensive, complex to manufacture, and require the use of rare materials.

The effects of a botched launch are devastating. 40k takes place in a universe where electronic warfare is so effective, and in such heavy use that armies must resort to standing in an open field and shooting at each other the old fashioned way. Rolling scatter dice for a nuke is not a happy proposition.

Finally there's the fact that even if you have a one to spare, and you hit what you're aiming for there's the problem of that entire area for miles around being completely useless for a long, long time.

There was a thread on this a long time ago and we basically came to the same conclusion you guys all came too.

Warhammer 40K takes place in a galaxy where space and planets are precious resources. After all the Imperium has made many of its own planets unlivable because of industrialization and over habitation. This matter isn't helped by the Tyranids (who basically consume the planet and all resources it has) and Chaos who like to wipe planets out regularly.

The Imperium would be shooting itself in the foot if it nuked a planet, even one that was tainted, and so they use other means...mostly the virus bombs+lance strike.

The only question I have is why doesn't the Imperium use Nuclear Bombs during Ship to Ship engagements, or are Void Shields just that powerful that not even a Nuke would dent them? (which seems unlikely because I would think a Nuke has more power than a Lance or even a Torpedo. Unless the Torpedos do actually have Nuclear Warheads and the Lances are used when the Torpedos take out the shields...or other way around.)

I always thought the Deathstrike and Manticore used nuclear explosives though.

Sanguinis wrote:There was a thread on this a long time ago and we basically came to the same conclusion you guys all came too.

Warhammer 40K takes place in a galaxy where space and planets are precious resources. After all the Imperium has made many of its own planets unlivable because of industrialization and over habitation. This matter isn't helped by the Tyranids (who basically consume the planet and all resources it has) and Chaos who like to wipe planets out regularly.

The Imperium would be shooting itself in the foot if it nuked a planet, even one that was tainted, and so they use other means...mostly the virus bombs+lance strike.

The only question I have is why doesn't the Imperium use Nuclear Bombs during Ship to Ship engagements, or are Void Shields just that powerful that not even a Nuke would dent them? (which seems unlikely because I would think a Nuke has more power than a Lance or even a Torpedo. Unless the Torpedos do actually have Nuclear Warheads and the Lances are used when the Torpedos take out the shields...or other way around.)

Considering the space is a vaccum though, how affective would a nuclear blast even be in a ship to ship context?

They probably do (come on some guard regiments are out there using muskets and spears), its just that most of the guys who write the fluff want to keep it all cool and sci fi like-why have an atom bomb going off when you can having something all a triple magma destructor missile or the like instead? Additionally it may be of note to say that the raw materials for the bombs aren't necessarrilly avavilable on a lot of planets within the Imperium, so other types of weapons based off of more common materials are more viable. Its all a work of fiction that you can play with as much as you like, so there probably are plenty of arsenals in the galaxy with atomic bombs in them, as well as say ones that shoot electricity, are full of mechanical bugs, or are specifically engineered to kill a certain type of small household cat. When people are shooting at each other with laser beams anything is feasible. =P

sphynx wrote:

Sanguinis wrote:There was a thread on this a long time ago and we basically came to the same conclusion you guys all came too.

Warhammer 40K takes place in a galaxy where space and planets are precious resources. After all the Imperium has made many of its own planets unlivable because of industrialization and over habitation. This matter isn't helped by the Tyranids (who basically consume the planet and all resources it has) and Chaos who like to wipe planets out regularly.

The Imperium would be shooting itself in the foot if it nuked a planet, even one that was tainted, and so they use other means...mostly the virus bombs+lance strike.

The only question I have is why doesn't the Imperium use Nuclear Bombs during Ship to Ship engagements, or are Void Shields just that powerful that not even a Nuke would dent them? (which seems unlikely because I would think a Nuke has more power than a Lance or even a Torpedo. Unless the Torpedos do actually have Nuclear Warheads and the Lances are used when the Torpedos take out the shields...or other way around.)

Considering the space is a vaccum though, how affective would a nuclear blast even be in a ship to ship context?

Nukes would actually prove quite useful in space. The yield of modern nuclear weapons is equal to 510,300,000 tons of TNT. That's a whole lot of energy from a weapon that would take up comparatively little space inside one of the massive ships the Imperium sends out on a regular basis. I think it once again just comes down to scarcity. If a ship only has access to a handful of nuclear warheads you don't want to use them unless you're quite positive that it's necessary.

it is a common misconception that the IoM doesn't use Nuclear weapons.


a conventional torpedo on an IoM ship has a "plasma" warhead.

this plasma is actually a Nuclear warhead.


there are 2 reasons they call nuclear warheads plasma warheads.

1) rule of cool. Plasma sounds more high tech and awsome then atomic.

2) the fluff. in a society that has lost much of it's learning, it's easier to explain the existance of a 4th state of matter(solid, liquid, gas, plasma) then it is to explain about aplitting the atom to release massive amounts of energy.

also, vast amounts of Plasma are created in a Nuclear blast. so it isn't an incorrect description.

and Fusion and Plasma are often used interchangably for the power generators many IoM machines use in some of the novels.

Grey Templar wrote:a conventional torpedo on an IoM ship has a "plasma" warhead.

this plasma is actually a Nuclear warhead.

Any quote for this?

The fluff always seemed to differentiate very clearly plasma and atomic wargear. I never read anywhere that Imperial torpedoes were in fact atomic warheads. But it sounds interesting.

Back on topic, the use of atomic bombs is reported in several pieces of fluff referring to the HH or the Crusade. For instance, I remember reading about Astartes using atomic warheads called godhammers in a planetary bombardment. So the IoM definitely used atomic bombs before and during the HH. I don't know if the Imperium still uses these weapons in the 41st millenium. If not, maybe the knowledge required to build atom charges was lost during the HH?

The fact that they not use it because of planet is just stupid. How many nukes we have use in testing and still we can live normal. I was thinking about using 3-4 nukes on various points on the planet to wipe out concentrated enemy forces and then clean up the rest.
Beside the nukes, does Imperium has in it's arsenal something more powerful but not radioactive ( like Russian Tsar bomb )?
And do they have some grou8nd support fortresses like today's Spectre Gunship?

Furthermore, they do still exist. Krieg was devastated when the last few loyalist soldiers used atomics to wipe the planet clean, deciding that they'd rather destroy the planet than let it fall to traitors.

Miraclefish wrote:Furthermore, they do still exist. Krieg was devastated when the last few loyalist soldiers used atomics to wipe the planet clean, deciding that they'd rather destroy the planet than let it fall to traitors.

That's a good point. i had completely forgotten about Krieg.

Laodamia wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:a conventional torpedo on an IoM ship has a "plasma" warhead.

this plasma is actually a Nuclear warhead.

Any quote for this?

The fluff always seemed to differentiate very clearly plasma and atomic wargear. I never read anywhere that Imperial torpedoes were in fact atomic warheads. But it sounds interesting.

Can't find an exact quote, I'm afraid, but BFG refers to the fact that these warheads used Nuclear Fusion (as opposed to fission) to achieve their destructive potential.

They exist and they can use them but why bother?
Most of the time the IoM is either trying to defend a planet or recapture it. If they want to destroy it they have better stuff for that.

You'd think they would have more nukes since nuclear war and fallout is pretty grimdark. I also think the Krieg used nukes to cleanse their world IIRC.

purplefood wrote:They exist and they can use them but why bother?
Most of the time the IoM is either trying to defend a planet or recapture it. If they want to destroy it they have better stuff for that.

Hey not every Imperial arsenal has virus bombs or melta torpedos in them, they could be a undersurplied, low technology fleet or the like. Nor does every Imperial commander give a damn if they pollute an area of land for the next few thousand years if it achieves a victory-or at least kills a damn lot of the enemy....friendly casualties are as usual, negligable. All this stuff about the higher ups caring if a such and such a place gets wiped off the face of the planet doesn't really come into it-if its radioactive give the troopers hazmat suits...or don't, if there's feth all there now that you've blown it up, have the lads fight over it anyway-, the logic of Imperial Tacticians doesn't always have to have to be sane or morally upstanding, its a galaxy where millions are sacrificed every day for the greater good of the Imperium or some crap like that, who cares about a few dirty bombs going off-hey maybe those plasma torpedoes aren't as common as the atom bombs in the arsenal for example, so they keep the good stuff for later and don't get harassed for wasting the Emperor's good thrones blowing a bunch of heretics up with all those lovely high tech missiles.

...And yes, Krieg did spend a good while decimating itself through a campaign of atomic purging. =P

Wyrmalla wrote:...And yes, Krieg did spend a good while decimating itself through a campaign of atomic purging. =P

This is why the Krieg theme freaks me out... it sounds far too much like our own world after a nuclear fallout... scary. I prefer the space orks and their funny theme. Krieg is far too much atomic-grimdark IMO.

wouldn't the Uranium used in the bombs be better for stuff like reactive armor or even a power source?

Nuclear Fusion doesn't use Uranium for the fuel. in fact, only 1/2 of the bombs dropped in war used Uranium(Ok, it was used as the detonator ) it's far less efficient then using Hydrogen Isotopes.

Deutrium(a naturally occuring Isotope of Hydrogen) is caused to Fuse with Tritium(another Hydrogen Isotope) to form Helium. the process releases incredible amounts of energy.

both of these Isotopes are found naturally(water) and as such there is a practically unlimited amount of it(one reason going to the moon and harvesting moon dust is so valuable, it's been irradiated with Hydrogen from the Sun)


Reactive Armor is a pretty inefficient way of protecting tanks. especially in wars where the same tank will likely get hit multiple times. Reactive armor is good for 1 hit on that area. you get hit twice in the same spot, you're dead. it's also hidiously expensive and the IoM needs lots of tanks quickly.

Grey Templar wrote:Nuclear Fusion doesn't use Uranium for the fuel. in fact, only 1/2 of the bombs dropped in war used Uranium(Ok, it was used as the detonator ) it's far less efficient then using Hydrogen Isotopes.

Deutrium(a naturally occuring Isotope of Hydrogen) is caused to Fuse with Tritium(another Hydrogen Isotope) to form Helium. the process releases incredible amounts of energy.

both of these Isotopes are found naturally(water) and as such there is a practically unlimited amount of it(one reason going to the moon and harvesting moon dust is so valuable, it's been irradiated with Hydrogen from the Sun)

Boz, me 'ead 'urtz! Kan we go stomping 'umies now?

Grey Templar wrote:it is a common misconception that the IoM doesn't use Nuclear weapons.


a conventional torpedo on an IoM ship has a "plasma" warhead.

this plasma is actually a Nuclear warhead.


there are 2 reasons they call nuclear warheads plasma warheads.

1) rule of cool. Plasma sounds more high tech and awsome then atomic.

2) the fluff. in a society that has lost much of it's learning, it's easier to explain the existance of a 4th state of matter(solid, liquid, gas, plasma) then it is to explain about aplitting the atom to release massive amounts of energy.

also, vast amounts of Plasma are created in a Nuclear blast. so it isn't an incorrect description.

and Fusion and Plasma are often used interchangably for the power generators many IoM machines use in some of the novels.

This would be incorrect. As pointed out in previous threads on this topic, atomic/nuclear weapons are banned by the IoM. For proof of this see a variety of sources (particularly relating the DKoK), the only one of which I recall being on like page 12 of the first Siege of Vraks IA(Quote effectively says that loyalists on Kreig used forbidden atomic weaponry to defeat the rebel forces). IIRC, I believe there was also a quote in one of the 'nid codecies about how they used atomic weapons in an attempt to cleanse a planet of a nid infestation, despite the weapons being banned.

Besides that, plasma based weaponry usually operates on very different principles from nuclear tech in most sci-fi settings. Indeed, plasma weapons are described as being exactly that, plasma based weapons. Super-energized gases that have changed states of matter to... plasma... Not nuclear at all.

So I guess the IoM had their own little genva convetnion on nukes at some time. There's some around, but you really don't want to use.

Its funny how they ban nukes because of how "dirty" they are. Although if any one of us were to travel to the 40k universe and go to a forge world...... we would probably die.