Lascannons from a Rhino?!?!?!

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**yearzero**

There's a guy at my FLGS who told him about his "OP" Devastator Squads in Rhinos comp. Basically what he told me that he puts a Devastator Squad with lascannons in a Rhino. There are several problems I see with this: If I'm not mistaken (p. 66 Rulebook), a single passenger may fire from fire points and you cannot fire if the vehicle has moved at cruising speed, because lascannons are heavy. So this comp. is just a massive waste of time, right? When I asked why he would do this, he responded "I can drive around and shoot lascannons without having to endanger my devastators to enemy shooting, and they will live if the rhino explodes."

Maybe I'm missing something. Please explain if so. I would almost rather just not destroy the rhinos and allow him to drive around shooting a single shot per turn, instead of firing the full squad.

**spongemonkee**

actually if he moves at all he cannot fire his lascannons as the troops inside count as moving if the vehicle does.

**yearzero**

spongemonkee wrote:actually if he moves at all he cannot fire his lascannons as the troops inside count as moving if the vehicle does.

yea, that's what i said, but it seems that he somehow thinks he can drive 3 rhinos around full of lascannons raping everyone. somehow he has gotten away with it in at least two games that i know of, even though i've never played him. i suppose next time i see him i'll just read the rulebook to him

**daemoniccorpse**

From the Rhino entry in C:SM: Fire Points: Two models may fire from the Rhino's top hatch

From BRB: Models firing from a vehicle count as moving if the vehicle moves

Therefore, as most players will agree, two of his Lascannons are useless as he will only get to fire two, he can't fire any of them if the Rhino moves because heavy weapons must not have moved in the movement phase to fire in the following shooting phase.

**Almarine**

It's not possible that he just means they're easier to position and stuff? It really sucks when you roll dawn of war and your devs have no rhino.

Maybe his devs only have two lascannons anyway?

**nosferatu1001**

Several issues:

1) Rhinos have 1 fire point, but as per all codexes 2 models can fire from them - Chaos codex through a fire point

So only 2 lascannons can fire, total

2) If your vehicle moves passengers also count as moving. This means you Heavy weapons *cannot* be fire if the vehicle moves.

3) If the rhino explodes he could well lose models, as normal.

**Galador**

He may just be trying to set them in the back in a Rhino for some extra protection??? If he can fire two lascannons out of it if it doesn't move, you would have to destroy the Rhino first, then the squad, which would make them possibly last longer, unless he rolls horrid saves if it explodes.

Other than that, everything above was completely correct.

**Ailaros**

yearzero wrote:yea, that's what i said, but it seems that he somehow thinks he can drive 3 rhinos around full of lascannons raping everyone.

Well, just wait until its his turn to play you, and then let him move with a rhino full of devastators and when he tries to shoot with them, stop him and crack open the rule book.

**time wizard**

Ailaros wrote:
yearzero wrote:yea, that's what i said, but it seems that he somehow thinks he can drive 3 rhinos around full of lascannons raping everyone.

Well, just wait until its his turn to play you, and then let him move with a rhino full of devastators and when he tries to shoot with them, stop him and crack open the rule book.

Put a stick note on page 66 for yourself to instantly access the correct rule.

**Mannahnin**

And remember that a Crew Shaken or Crew Stunned result on the vehicle also prevents any embarked passengers from shooting. So even if he stands still with them, 4/6 Glancing results on the Rhino make them unable to shoot.

**yearzero**

Mannahnin wrote:And remember that a Crew Shaken or Crew Stunned result on the vehicle also prevents any embarked passengers from shooting. So even if he stands still with them, 4/6 Glancing results on the Rhino make them unable to shoot.

Excellent point. I'll keep that in mind whenever I see him playing again

**Nicorex**

Gives me an idea though, 5 chaos havoks with 2 lazcannons in a rhino with demonic possesion and a dozer blade and combi-plasma, plant them in cover and your all set. Squad like that comes out to 200 points so its a huge points sink.. but it might be fun for a silly game.

**Mentat**

10 havoks with 2 autocannon in a rhino with a havok launcher is a decent fire support/countercharge unit that I've used before. 4 anti transport shots and 3 attacks each on the charge. I think you could also throw in special weapons on 2 of them as well but I don't have my book in front of me and can't remember.

To answer the OPs question... he can sit still and fire 2 lascannons from the rhino. It's a valid tactic. If he's moving and firing, or firing 4 devs from it, then thats a NO GO.

I personally use my CSM squads in extra armor havok launcher rhinos with autocannon/melta that way and its worked very well for me. I call it the "poor mans razorback". It doesn't seem like much until you have 3-4 squads all shooting their autocannons at the enemy vehicles. Basically I fire until I destroy or stun them and then move to the next vehicle. Then the oblits and other stuff I use fire at what's left. When the enemy gets close the CSMs can drive up and melta a vehicle, or dismount and assault. Or if not they move to an objective.

**nosferatu1001**

Stick MoK on them as well to get bezerker - light when you charge.

**CageUF**

As others have indicated:

#1 If a transport moves the embarked passengers count as moved. So if the rhino move he cant shoot any of his heavy.
#2 Only 2 passengers can shoot out of the top hatch of the rhino. So if he sits there he is getting a max of 2 shots.

If someone was interested in doing this type of thing they should use 2 lascannnons and 2 other heavy weapons such as multimeltas or plasmacannons that way when the rhino camps the player can choose whether or not he wants the lascannons or small blasts/AP1.

**Dracos**

Or with combat squads you could put a 5 man squad with 2 heavies in the rhino, and leave a 5 man with 2 heavies on foot. Of course, Devs are pretty expensive and I wouldn't suggest this for a competitive army. Alternatively you could just take a 5 man dev squad with 2 heavies in the rhino.

**Mentat**

Or a 10 man dev squad with 2 heavy weapons.

This is not a very competative choice. Its not entirely a bad idea if you are using devs though. My "poor mans razorback" worked well but its not the optimal choice.

If your friend is playing by the rules then it shouldn't be a problem to deal with. If hes moving around and shooting 4 lascannons, make him stop.