Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Is it the regular 2" or 4"?

I've searched Google, the forums and my rule book and I can't find a definitive answer.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
As far as I know, it's only vehicles that get the 4" coherency, but 2" doesn't seem like much when the models are bigger than regular infantry.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually, I have a followup question since I'm using Deffkoptas.

I don't have any other FA units, so is there an advantage to using them as 3 units, or a mixture, instead of one unit of 3 models?

2"

3 models as 3 units = Easy Kill Points

3 models as 1 units = Can only shoot one target

Now, as far as what you take coherency from that is all over the place. As per RAW you use the base, but for things like Eldar Jetbikes that makes little sense since some use the small base size which would make them incredibly clutter on the board. I personally treat jetbikes as coherency from the model.

I think it is 2" only vehichle squadrons may take 4" coherency i believe.
Well firstly you can't take 3 Units of Deffkoptas with 1 model in each. because the minimum you can have in one unit is 3.

@Bluedagger - Thanks for the reply. I keep getting mixed up on this point since I keep unconsciously thinking of bikes et al as vehicles. I think in my very first game I tried to move my Deffkoptas flat out.

I think I'll try them as 3 units to see if I can get some better shots at rear armour with their twin-linked rokkit launchas.

@Detonator - You can take 1-5 Deffkoptas in a unit in my Ork codex on pg 101. But I bought it second-hand, so please let me know if it's changed since the one I have came out.

You are correct sail, you can take them in units of 1-5. People typically take them in units of 3, because with orktastic shooting that will usually lead to a dead enemy vehicle.

oh yes sorry. I was thinking of Reavers and warbikers sorry. I know my orks well but not as well as other armies.

I will laways take them in 3 at least. You have oen unit that will be damned hard to defeat in cloce combat compared to an easier target. It si more robust so harder to get 1 kill point, compared to an easy 3. always go for a squad of 3 NEVER 1. My golden rule for deffkoptas. and orks boys in general. Never take a minimum squad. Easy pickings.

2" same as for infantry.

Vehicle squadrons use the 4" coherency.

There is actually a reason for using the larger bases for jetbikes here - it stops them looking like a barrel of genestealers sitting in each others' pockets.

Yeah. Jetbikes really should go on the large flying bases or on biker bases (or those sweet ovals from Gale Force 9).

Technically, of course, you're supposed to use the bases provided, but many bikes do come with the large flying bases anyway. And those little flying bases are terrible.

^ yeah, my old Reavers have issues staying on the bases, untill I drilled the hole slightly larger, but the new Reavers seem to be a bit front heavy and like to fall over on the small bases!

I think the Deffkoptas I have came with the large flying base. The base is just a bit smaller than the Dreadnought base, so it shouldn't be a problem. The only things that really stick out are their rotors, but I usually remove those when they've taken one wound to keep track.

Detonator wrote:oh yes sorry. I was thinking of Reavers and warbikers sorry. I know my orks well but not as well as other armies.

I will laways take them in 3 at least. You have oen unit that will be damned hard to defeat in cloce combat compared to an easier target. It si more robust so harder to get 1 kill point, compared to an easy 3. always go for a squad of 3 NEVER 1. My golden rule for deffkoptas. and orks boys in general. Never take a minimum squad. Easy pickings.

This is quite a bad advice - using two or three single koptas is a well established tactic for orks and works great if used correctly.

For the base: In my last apoc game, I fielded 15 koptas in a single unit in a huge pile. No problems with rotors at all.

Jidmah wrote:

Detonator wrote:oh yes sorry. I was thinking of Reavers and warbikers sorry. I know my orks well but not as well as other armies.

I will laways take them in 3 at least. You have oen unit that will be damned hard to defeat in cloce combat compared to an easier target. It si more robust so harder to get 1 kill point, compared to an easy 3. always go for a squad of 3 NEVER 1. My golden rule for deffkoptas. and orks boys in general. Never take a minimum squad. Easy pickings.

This is quite a bad advice - using two or three single koptas is a well established tactic for orks and works great if used correctly.

For the base: In my last apoc game, I fielded 15 koptas in a single unit in a huge pile. No problems with rotors at all.

But in this case (and using it to other scenarios) from where do you take measures for shooting/assualt/be-assaulted/etc from the model or the base? cause we have mentioned this topic on my game place and its an everyday-issue, specially with Eldar Jetbikes that still use that mini-crystal-base. This guy for instance uses the models to measure but insist that you must reach the base if you want to assault his unit since the BRB says so. So what to use?

MadGretchin wrote:But in this case (and using it to other scenarios) from where do you take measures for shooting/assualt/be-assaulted/etc from the model or the base? cause we have mentioned this topic on my game place and its an everyday-issue, specially with Eldar Jetbikes that still use that mini-crystal-base. This guy for instance uses the models to measure but insist that you must reach the base if you want to assault his unit since the BRB says so. So what to use?

If he wants to be like that, make him use the base to measure from for shooting. BRB Pg 3. Measuring distances, states that a model is considered to occupy the area of its base, so if he wants to play that you have to assault the base, then he has to measure from the base to shoot and move. He can't play it like that as it is unfair to players that use models that aren't larger than the base.

MadGretchin wrote:But in this case (and using it to other scenarios) from where do you take measures for shooting/assualt/be-assaulted/etc from the model or the base? cause we have mentioned this topic on my game place and its an everyday-issue, specially with Eldar Jetbikes that still use that mini-crystal-base. This guy for instance uses the models to measure but insist that you must reach the base if you want to assault his unit since the BRB says so. So what to use?

Either use the idea Galador proposed or simply show the guy page 3 BRB under measuring distances. Specifically the part that says when measuring the distance between two models you use the closest point of the bases. The only exception is models that are supplied without a base. And since Eldar jetbikes come with bases you measure from the base for all game purposes. Also of not is that jetbikes and bikes are not vehicles so they really don't have a 'hull' that they can measure to.

In my gaming group, koptas fire from the tip of their rokkits, as any model fires from the tip of its gun. RAW, this is wrong, as you have to measure from base of the firer to the base of the nearest model in the targeted unit. There is no exception for jetbikes. Note that template weapons shoot by holding the template to the actual gun.
Anything that wants to shoot or assault jetbikes has to reach the base. If you can't reach the base because the model is in the way, ask him to remove the model for the duration of the assault. If he can't(base glued), remove the model and replace it with an apropriate sized scrap of paper you prepared.

Page 3 clearly tells us that bases are always the point of measurement for all non-vehicle models.

Jetbikes overhanging (by a lot) those stupid small flying bases is one of the main reasons most players use the large flying bases instead.

Thanks a lot guys, I really needed some backup on that topic, a tournament is on its way!