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Effect: During a Turn in which a unit equipped with rad grenades assaults, the enemy's unit(s) suffers a -1 T until end of the phase
Question: if i have an IC e.g. a Grand Master with rad grenades and he is joined with a unit that does not have rad grenades.
what is the correct way to play it from below
1: Only he get the -1 T on the enemies
2: He and the unit he joined get the -1 T on the enemies

Only enemy units suffer the -1 toughness, not friendly models. And only in close combat.

Edit: Rad granades work when the unit assualts or is also assualted, and they work on every model in the enemy unit, icluding attached ICs

Psy.

To expand on this:

GKGM with Rad Grenades attached to a Paladin squad.

They multi-charge two units, the GKGM being in contact with only one unit.

Do both units suffer -1 T? Rad Grenades isn't a special rule that is granted to everyone in the unit, so the second unit wasn't assaulted by anyone with Rad Grenades.

somerandomdude wrote:To expand on this:

GKGM with Rad Grenades attached to a Paladin squad.

They multi-charge two units, the GKGM being in contact with only one unit.

Do both units suffer -1 T? Rad Grenades isn't a special rule that is granted to everyone in the unit, so the second unit wasn't assaulted by anyone with Rad Grenades.

its says units(s)

e.g. both/all enemy units are effected

The wording in the codex is "During a turn in which a unit equipped with rad grenades launches an assualt, or is assualted, the enemy unit(s) suffer a -1 penalty to Toughness"

in the instance you provided, I'd reason that only the assualt with the Grandmaster would apply the -1 to Toughness as he is not part of the second assualt.

Psy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ThatMG wrote:
its says units(s)

e.g. both/all enemy units are effected

Here is where rules disputes happen; the term "Unit(s)" could apply to it being more than one model or more than one squad.

nah in his cause 1 of his unit is multi-assaulting (2) enemy units the grenades would effect every enemy because of launches an assault, enemy units(s)
its not what they asssault is IF they assault or ARE assaulted. In theory you could effect any number of units if this is correct.

However, the Paladin squad does not have rad granades, the Grandmaster does. Ergo, if the Grandmaster is not in the assualt then how can the rad grenades take effect?

Psy.

PsyberAngel wrote:However, the Paladin squad does not have rad granades, the Grandmaster does. Ergo, if the Grandmaster is not in the assualt then how can the rad grenades take effect?

Psy.

Then I made mistake I thought you meant that Rad Grenades effect the enemy unit so the GK grand master and the unit he is with gets the effect
OR It does not matter if he is in the assault it matters IF he assaulted.

Nope, only the unit equipped with rad grenades would gain the effect. So Paladins with Grandmaster assualt then the enemy is at -1 Toughness. Paladins multi-assualt then only the assualt which includes the Grandmaster.

Hope that clears things up.

Psy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The Grandmaster is an IC and therefore counts as a unit by himself, albeit with the ability to be joined to another. Thus, HE is the unit with rad grenades and so only the assualt involving him would have the effect.


Psy.

He counts as a unit by himself WHEN RESOLVING ATTACKS

Up until that poiint, as pages 48 and 49 repeatedly state, he is a normal member of the unit

So when GKGM+Paladins assault 3 units, all 3 units will be at -1T

Sorry, nosferatu1001, the IC rules take great pains to codify what the IC does and does not do (otherwise the rules wouldn't take 2 whole pages).

The Special Rules paragraph on pg48 points out that ICs don't confer special rules unless the rules state so specifically. This is why in the DE book, Phantasm Grenade Launchers specifically state that they confer assault and defensive grenades to the entire unit.

ICs & Assaults make it clear that ICs are always treated as a separate single-model unit and that you are, essentially, entering into a multiassault.

That being said, you'll get your super-grenades' effects against any unit that gets into B2B with the IC concerned, which is quite likely since the IC has to move in/pile in first and if another unit assaults, they have to try and get in B2B with as many models as possible. If you do the charge/pile in of your IC right, you can maximize the effect of the grenades.

Considering how awesome these grenades are, it's a laughably light 'weakness'.

DeviantApostle wrote:Sorry, nosferatu1001, the IC rules take great pains to codify what the IC does and does not do (otherwise the rules wouldn't take 2 whole pages).

The Special Rules paragraph on pg48 points out that ICs don't confer special rules unless the rules state so specifically. This is why in the DE book, Phantasm Grenade Launchers specifically state that they confer assault and defensive grenades to the entire unit.

First of all, wargear are not special rules. Second, the DE launcher confers grenades to the whole unit, becaus defensive and assault grenades work only for models equipped with it, not the whole unit.

ICs & Assaults make it clear that ICs are always treated as a separate single-model unit and that you are, essentially, entering into a multiassault.

This is wrong, nos' answer quoted the important rules already. The only thing even close to your statement is "When attacks are resolved, however, independet characters are allways treated as sperate, single model unit[...]"

That being said, you'll get your super-grenades' effects against any unit that gets into B2B with the IC concerned, which is quite likely since the IC has to move in/pile in first and if another unit assaults, they have to try and get in B2B with as many models as possible. If you do the charge/pile in of your IC right, you can maximize the effect of the grenades.

Considering how awesome these grenades are, it's a laughably light 'weakness'.

I'll ignore the whining about GKs. The grenade triggers when the unit is assaulted or assaults, which is before defenders react, before you figure out who made it into close combat, and, most importantly, before you resolve any attacks. So the IC is still part of the unit, and and the grenade will work against anyone assaulting his unit or any anyone his unit assaults.

Yeah Nos is right the grenades specify unit and the unit includes the IC. Trying to force your interpretation makes psychotroke grenades do nothing...

The IC and unit are 1 unit for all purposes except resolving attacks in CC.