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Hey guys. I'm not sure if this has been covered yet, but I've been curious.
When Tyranids got FAQed, it was made apparent that area affect abilities and psychic powers cannot target units inside transports. This included their anti-psychic bubble, Shadow of the Warp and the infamous Doom of Malentae (sp?) with his soul sucking ability. The implication I got was that being in a transport made you safe from pretty much anything outside the transport, even your own psychic powers and abilities.

My question is what this means for other anti-psychic wargear and abilities. Shadow of the Warp and a Psychic Hood are really similar, being different only in range and function but serving the same purpose. Eldar Runes of Warding, again, do pretty much the same thing with unlimited range and some slightly different dice play.

So none of these should be able to affect a psyker in a transport, right? A librarian in a Rhino (or in a landraider if using powers that don't need line of sight) can use powers all day and not care about a Farseer with Runes of Warding being on the table, until he gets out of his ride? Being an Eldar player primarily myself, this is of peak interest to me because I like Eldrad in a Falcon, and if no one can stop his powers unless he gets out, then I just think that's dandy. It seems like the only way to keep things consistent and making sense.

So yeah let me know how you guys feel on this, or if I'm just now catching something obvious or something.

Agree on psychic hood, but runes of warding simply say "all enemy psychers" with no restriction. So even if you were in a transport, wich is aboard a superheavy flyer, on the other side of the universe, you'd still have to roll 3d6 to test.

The moot point is, that the tyranid faq simply calls all issues against them , no matter what RAW would have been, so you can't realy transfer anything from that faq to any other race.

Yea the Tyranid FAQ really hosed us on that one.

I really don't care for that ruling, but since it is a *official* ruling nothing
anyone can to about it, but I would say it would apply to any army that
has a AoE power that effects Psykers. So Psychic Hoods would not be effective
against Psykers in Transports. I see alot of Marine-play where their Librarians
never leave their transports now a days at my game shop. But then, I've seen
a far number of Mech Marine too oddly enough.

Yeah basically everyone but Eldar got boned by that ruling. So yes Eldrad in a Falcon is effectively peerless now whilst he's still messing everyone elses psychic powers...

Problem is that the rules work both ways. The rule about being embarked is that you are removed from the table. After you are removed from the table, you are given a set list of things your embarked not on the table unit can do.

Does eldrads runes of warding work if he is not on the table? Being in reserve and being in a transport are identical in this case, as the set list of things you can do in a transport does not include using wargear.

Codex: Eldar p.26 "A Farseer can use Runes of Warding to throw up psychic interference to hinder his foe. All enemy Psychic tests must be taken on 3D6, suffering a Perils of the Warp attack on any roll of 12 or above"

Seems to me like he would only need to be in the army and alive for the runes to work imho.

Problem is that the rules work both ways. The rule about being embarked is that you are removed from the table. After you are removed from the table, you are given a set list of things your embarked not on the table unit can do.

Does eldrads runes of warding work if he is not on the table? Being in reserve and being in a transport are identical in this case, as the set list of things you can do in a transport does not include using wargear.

This is not true he is on the table and is where the vehicle is for all purposes so yes his runes work as do psychichoods out of a vehicle just not into a vehicle. KFFs work out of a vehicle for the same reason as does any other wargear and area effects. Just not into for some reason.

DevianID wrote:Problem is that the rules work both ways. The rule about being embarked is that you are removed from the table. After you are removed from the table, you are given a set list of things your embarked not on the table unit can do.

Does eldrads runes of warding work if he is not on the table? Being in reserve and being in a transport are identical in this case, as the set list of things you can do in a transport does not include using wargear.

Very, very wrong? Reserves and embarked are never ever the same. Embarked units are considered to be inside the vehicle for all purposes, using the vehicle's hull for any measurments. There are multiple examples for wargear working from inside vehicles, in codices and FAQs. The only reason for anything not working against embarked units (for example, shooting), is not being able to trace line of sight to them.

Everything else is handled by this (which was/is a rules change to the BRB):

BRB FAQ wrote:Q: Can Psychic powers be used on a unit embarked on a
transport? (p50)
A: For simplicityʼs sake, the answer has to be a firm ʻNo,
unless the psyker himself is in the unit being transportedʼ

So actually the hood does work, as it's not a psychic power.

Some neat insight here so far. I have to disagree on the line of sight to units in a transport thing though. The doom's soul sucking thing doesn't require line of sight and it doesn't affect units in a transport. Imperial Guard orders, which I can't remember if do need line of sight or not, also can't go into a transport.

While Eldar Runes being able to go into a transport, but not other psychic defenses, is interesting and seems to have some backing, my question is still about psychic hoods going into a transport.
What I'm seeing so far is that everything else that works like a hood can't go into a transport, so there is some precedent and it seems like a stretch to have it be the one exception to what seems to be the rule. Do the folks that think it should be able to affect embarked units have some backing? A rules reference or some other similar piece of wargear (area affect type things) that is confirmed as going into transports? Cause if not, I'm gonna have to go with being safe from hoods as long as your dudes are in boxes.

This is not true he is on the table

Very, very wrong? Reserves and embarked are never ever the same. Embarked units are considered to be inside the vehicle for all purposes, using the vehicle's hull for any measurments. There are multiple examples for wargear working from inside vehicles, in codices and FAQs.

Jidmah and Flingitnow, I would ask you to very carefully reread the embarking section in the rules. The embarked unit is removed from the table period. After you remove them from the table, you have some options given to you, but not a single one of them put you back on the table other than disembarking.

There are multiple examples for some wargear working. If my army says I can use an Icon from a vehicle, does that mean YOUR army gains the ability to use a teleport homer from inside a vehicle? No! Of course not. Only wargear listed as working while embarked works while embarked.

Now, in your defense, no one including myself plays it that way. Which is why when the 'nid faq came out everyone was flabbergasted. However, the rules have been supporting the 'nid faq for a long time now, just no one cares to play that way.

PS, embarked units are NOT considered to be inside the vehicle for all purposes, using the vehicles hull for any measurements. This is not what the rules say. There are multiple rules for measuring items within embarked vehicles, and multiple rules for what can and can not be affected inside a vehicle. The default state is that you cant use any ability you want, and you cant affect units inside a vehicle any more than they can effect their surroundings.

DevianID wrote:

This is not true he is on the table

Very, very wrong? Reserves and embarked are never ever the same. Embarked units are considered to be inside the vehicle for all purposes, using the vehicle's hull for any measurments. There are multiple examples for wargear working from inside vehicles, in codices and FAQs.

Jidmah and Flingitnow, I would ask you to very carefully reread the embarking section in the rules. The embarked unit is removed from the table period. After you remove them from the table, you have some options given to you, but not a single one of them put you back on the table other than disembarking.

Not period, they are removed from the table andplaced aside, making a note or otherwise marking that they are being transported. If what you said was the case, they would count as destroyed at the end of a game because they were not on the table, as per the BRB FAQ.

DevianID wrote:There are multiple examples for some wargear working. If my army says I can use an Icon from a vehicle, does that mean YOUR army gains the ability to use a teleport homer from inside a vehicle? No! Of course not. Only wargear listed as working while embarked works while embarked.

Now, in your defense, no one including myself plays it that way. Which is why when the 'nid faq came out everyone was flabbergasted. However, the rules have been supporting the 'nid faq for a long time now, just no one cares to play that way.

PS, embarked units are NOT considered to be inside the vehicle for all purposes, using the vehicles hull for any measurements. This is not what the rules say. There are multiple rules for measuring items within embarked vehicles, and multiple rules for what can and can not be affected inside a vehicle. The default state is that you cant use any ability you want, and you cant affect units inside a vehicle any more than they can effect their surroundings.

Actually it states that if you need to measure a range involving an embarked unit (except its shooting), this range is measured to or from the vehicle's hull.
There is nowhere in the BRB that states that any wargear cannot be used inside of a vehicle. So, unless specifically stated in the wargear's rules, or the army's codex or FAQ, all wargear works inside of a transport.

All the rules I have cited so far are on pg. 66 of the BRB. You cannot use something in the Tyranid FAQ to blanket the entire game. If you could, it wouldn't be in the Tyranid FAQ, it would be in the BRB FAQ.

Doomface81 wrote:Some neat insight here so far. I have to disagree on the line of sight to units in a transport thing though. The doom's soul sucking thing doesn't require line of sight and it doesn't affect units in a transport. Imperial Guard orders, which I can't remember if do need line of sight or not, also can't go into a transport.

While Eldar Runes being able to go into a transport, but not other psychic defenses, is interesting and seems to have some backing, my question is still about psychic hoods going into a transport.
What I'm seeing so far is that everything else that works like a hood can't go into a transport, so there is some precedent and it seems like a stretch to have it be the one exception to what seems to be the rule. Do the folks that think it should be able to affect embarked units have some backing? A rules reference or some other similar piece of wargear (area affect type things) that is confirmed as going into transports? Cause if not, I'm gonna have to go with being safe from hoods as long as your dudes are in boxes.

Doom does not work because the FAQ says so. Orders do not work because their rules say so. As the hood neither requires line of sight, nor is a psychic power(which are ruled out from affecting units in transports), nor does its rule or faq exclude embarked units, the hood will work. Some abstract example: If their is an ork battleweagon with a boarding plank within 12" of an allied Pedro Cantor, the ork using the boarding plank would benefit from +1 Attack.

There seems to be a lot of people saying that a hood could go into a transport because some abilities can come out, like Pedro's bubble and Chaos Icons. This is not the same at all. I remember before the Doom was FAQed, the best argument for it affecting embarked units was "if his area affect can come out, why can't mine go in?" But guess what-GW says it can't. So I don't think that argument applies here either. Also, the fact that there isn't an explicit rule for them not working on embarked units doesn't mean that the opposite is the case.
I guess I'm looking more for RAI arguments than RAW, because as per usual with this stuff there is no RAW answer that's black and white. And I still feel like the precedent of everything else that works similarly not affecting embarked units makes the RAI pretty clear. To me anyways.

Psychic hoods work vs embarked psykers, because the rules for measuring to / from units let you determine if they are in range (24" or unlimited)

RAW you struggle with measuring TO a psychic hood in a vehicle. When the hood is there by itself then you dont have a problem, as the rules kick in again. However when it is part of a unit you struggle slightly more.

Doom was FAQd not to work because, quite frnakly, killing guys inside a vehicle causes all sorts of problems that GW have not addressed. SL is NOT a psychic power, so has absolutely no bearing on psychic hoods