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Now, It says in the Codex that Ultramar raises several Imperial Guard Regiments, along with PDF and the Ultramarines, despite not needing to. What I'm wondering is, do other Space Marine chapters do the same?

It doesn't make sense for all chapters of course; with the loss of their homeworld, the Invaders won't be raising Guard regiments any time soon, but maybe the Chapters that live on better inhabited and defended worlds, say, the Crimson Fists, before Waaghh Snahrod ravaged Rynn's World, or maybe the Salamanders raise some regiments from Nocturne; being a death world and all, should be prime recruiting material.

Is there anything in the fluff preventing this? I'm asking because my next army's going to hopefully be an IG force from the same world as the Salamanders, so I can re-use my paints and transfers.

If i understand fluff correctly, then it's very possible as tradition for any Ultra descendant chapters,but not so much for others, though iirc IFs recruit on Necromunda, which definitely known for Necromunda Spiders IG regiments.But IF nominal homeworld is Terra.
On other hand, only two things really can be 'gainst that if planet has regular contacts with Imperium - lack of resources and chapter's arrogancy - but surely not Codex Astartes nor imperial bureaucracy.

A marine chapter that lives on a civilised/hive world can raise IG regiments if it wants to, it could do it if it wasn't on a civilised world actually.
The Crimson Fists did have some PDF regiments on Rynn's World.
Other chapters prefer not to have any outside involvement and so do not raise any IG regiments at all.

I'm fairly certain that any Marine force that recruits from worlds with a "modern" level of technology or better keeps a PDF around on said world.

Melissia wrote:I'm fairly certain that any Marine force that recruits from worlds with a "modern" level of technology or better keeps a PDF around on said world.

A PDF, that's for sure. But would they raise proper IG regiments like the ultras? I'm not really sure.

I don't see why it wouldn't be possible but it would probably be fairly difficult. This is for a few reasons. As far as I know, the vast majority of marine chapters recruit from feral and/or deathworlds so that their recruits are already used to a life of hardship, warfare etc. when they pick them. Obviously this is not a hard and fast rule but may help explain why it may be uncommon.

The major obstacle I see is actually logistics more than anything. It used to be, and I don't think this has been modified, that marine chapters generally cannot produce their own equipment. They are forced to rely on the Mechanicus for that, just like everyone else. Imagine how much material a single Imperial Guard regiment, let alone multiple ones, needs to fight even a limited engagement. They would need to get this equipment from somewhere. I would hazard a guess that most marine chapters are simply too busy fighting the various threats against the Imperium to deal with this kind of thing. The Ultramarines are a bit of a different case. Ultramar is a big place and it's unlikely that the Ultramarines could protect the entire thing, and still protect the Imperium, without a sizable PDF. The existence of this large PDF would make it relatively easy, due to the existing military infrastructure, to expand the organization to include actual regiments to fight outside the bounds of Ultramar itself.

So really it doesn't seem likely that the raising of guard regiments on marine worlds is common, or easy for that matter. One of the Word Bearer novels, I think it was "Dark Creed", depicts the White Consuls (a close successor of the Ultramarines) raising a huge PDF and guard force from their world(s) so there is precedent for this happening somewhere other than Ultramar.

At the end of the day it's your guard army so go ahead and make them the Nocturne PDF or whatever you like.

Most if not all marine chapers produce their own equipment.

It really depends on the chapter, most chapters recruit from worlds with small hardened populations, with alot having no idea that the IoM exists or some very mystical view of it. For alot of chapters having locals in a PDF wouldn't be considered as they prefer humans pre-black powder let alone electricity and lasers.

Chapters like the Imperial Fists recruit from hive worlds but they have no claim of control over the planet, so the planet is run normally with PDFs and IG.

Nocture has a small population, so a standing PDF would be unlikely, but maybe like Switzerland every male would be trained to use a gun, for a worst case senario if Noctune is invaded locals would fight alongside the Salamanders.

My IG are from My Marine's homeworld(makes painting my bastions/Aegis defense lines in my Guard's colors yet playing them with my marines make sense); The color scheme is entirely different though.

Well, the Salamanders are known to live either amongst the human populace of Nocturne, or on the planet's moon in the fortress monastary, so it seems to me that they have at least a rudementary knowledge of Salamanders and the Imperium, but they're hardy and all because it's still a Death World.

Seems to me that Nocturne could maintain its own Guard and PDF regiments.

Notcurne is small. Not only a deathworld, but there's very little landmass.

The Salamanders also go out of their way to protect the citizens of the Imperium, rather than the Imperium itself. I doubt they'd want to see the population of their own homeworld put in harms way.

purplefood wrote:Most if not all marine chapers produce their own equipment.

I'd like to know where you got this from. It's not that I don't believe you but this does not fit into how I remember things (which doesn't necessarily make me correct). Like I said in my first post, the fluff may have been retconned somewhere along the line. I'd like a source if you have one. I'd be willing to concede that many chapters may produce their own small arms, but star ships and tanks? Where are they building these things on Fenris, Nocturne, Baal, and the like? For that matter, how did they manage to get the STC's from the Mechanicus in the first place? Tech marines are there to maintain the material that the chapter already has, not to build land raiders on an assembly line.

Back on topic (for the most part):
It makes sense that a chapter recruiting from a "civilized" world would be more likely to have a PDF and/or to raise IG regiments. To get back to the original question, there seems to be no real "fluff reason" that the OP couldn't call his IG army the Nocturnian(?) PDF or Imperial Guard or whatever. I can't think of one at any rate (which probably means there are a ton that someone will bring up).

The presence of an IG regiment on a marine homeworld is not the same as saying that a chapter has raised the regiment. They are two entirely distinct military forces - I can't see why there wouldn't be guard regiments raised on a world a Marine chapter might call home but they wouldn't be any more a subsidiary of the chapter than any other regiment.

andain841 wrote:

purplefood wrote:Most if not all marine chapers produce their own equipment.

I'd like to know where you got this from. It's not that I don't believe you but this does not fit into how I remember things (which doesn't necessarily make me correct). Like I said in my first post, the fluff may have been retconned somewhere along the line. I'd like a source if you have one. I'd be willing to concede that many chapters may produce their own small arms, but star ships and tanks? Where are they building these things on Fenris, Nocturne, Baal, and the like? For that matter, how did they manage to get the STC's from the Mechanicus in the first place? Tech marines are there to maintain the material that the chapter already has, not to build land raiders on an assembly line.

I support andain on this one.

I'm not even sure the Ultramarines produce their own ships.

AFAIK, SM chapters sometimes produce their escort vessels (if they are lucky enough to have access to their own space shipyards). I know for instance that the Dark Angels produce most of their escort vessels (I don't know how they do it, however). But no SM chapter has enough resources and manpower to build its strike cruisers and battle barges.

I think the same goes with some of their land vehicles. I'm pretty sure all SM chapters produce their own rhinos and variants built on this chassis (whirlwind, predator, razorback, etc), because the rhino chassis is quite easy to produce and maintain. But LR, stormravens, TDA and the like are much more complicated to produce. Hence, I guess they receive these expensive pieces of equipment from nearby forge worlds.

Civilized recruiting worlds would raise PDFs at least.


Possably they would raise IG as well.



the Ultramar defense force is a IG equivilant that is under the command of Lord Maccragge.




My Space Marine chapter's homeworld raises Guard regiments(although the world isn't a recruiting world. the chapter recruits from several nearby deathworlds) in addition to the PDF.

Your Friend Doctor Robert wrote:Seems to me that Nocturne could maintain its own Guard and PDF regiments.

The population of Nocturne is small, the amount of effort to transport such a small number of men to join the IG wouldn't be worth it. IG are raised in their millions.

andain841 wrote:

purplefood wrote:Most if not all marine chapers produce their own equipment.

I'd like to know where you got this from. It's not that I don't believe you but this does not fit into how I remember things (which doesn't necessarily make me correct). Like I said in my first post, the fluff may have been retconned somewhere along the line. I'd like a source if you have one. I'd be willing to concede that many chapters may produce their own small arms, but star ships and tanks? Where are they building these things on Fenris, Nocturne, Baal, and the like? For that matter, how did they manage to get the STC's from the Mechanicus in the first place? Tech marines are there to maintain the material that the chapter already has, not to build land raiders on an assembly line.

Nocture is a bad example because:

A. the Salamaders fortress monastery is on the moon Prometheus not on Nocture.
B. the Salamanders are a chapter known for their self-reliance and mastery of the forge, they produce all their own equipment.

The last C:SM presented chapters that had no link with Mars so make all their own equipment but had less of the newer kit.

BluntmanDC wrote:

Nocture is a bad example because:

A. the Salamaders fortress monastery is on the moon Prometheus not on Nocture.
B. the Salamanders are a chapter known for their self-reliance and mastery of the forge, they produce all their own equipment.

I agree that Nocturne is a bad example for this discussion, I used it because the OP referenced the Salamanders. I would also like to argue that the Salamanders being known as self-reliant master craftsman does not translate, in my mind at least, into the capability (leaving out the question of the time involved) to produce things like Strike Cruisers and Land Raiders. With that said, I'm not ruling it out in all cases (see below). Like I said before, I'm willing to concede that personal arms could be produced on a chapter's home world. Since nobody, myself included, seems able to provide a source for us all to look at regarding this subject I'm not sure we are going to get much resolution. It would not surprise me in the least if there is conflicting information in the fluff about this subject.

@Laodamia

One of the Ultramarines BL novels mentions that the Vae Victus (the strike cruiser used by the protagonists) was built in the shipyards of Calth (one of the planets in Ultramar) it is later repaired in the same shipyard. This would seem to indicate that the Ultramarines can build anything up to a Strike Cruiser in their own shipyards. Presumably if the Ultras can do it then so can other chapters. However, the massive amount of resources, labor, and time required would probably make this pretty rare.

andain841 wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:

Nocture is a bad example because:

A. the Salamaders fortress monastery is on the moon Prometheus not on Nocture.
B. the Salamanders are a chapter known for their self-reliance and mastery of the forge, they produce all their own equipment.

I agree that Nocturne is a bad example for this discussion, I used it because the OP referenced the Salamanders. I would also like to argue that the Salamanders being known as self-reliant master craftsman does not translate, in my mind at least, into the capability (leaving out the question of the time involved) to produce things like Strike Cruisers and Land Raiders. With that said, I'm not ruling it out in all cases (see below). Like I said before, I'm willing to concede that personal arms could be produced on a chapter's home world. Since nobody, myself included, seems able to provide a source for us all to look at regarding this subject I'm not sure we are going to get much resolution. It would not surprise me in the least if there is conflicting information in the fluff about this subject.

@Laodamia

One of the Ultramarines BL novels mentions that the Vae Victus (the strike cruiser used by the protagonists) was built in the shipyards of Calth (one of the planets in Ultramar) it is later repaired in the same shipyard. This would seem to indicate that the Ultramarines can build anything up to a Strike Cruiser in their own shipyards. Presumably if the Ultras can do it then so can other chapters. However, the massive amount of resources, labor, and time required would probably make this pretty rare.

At least in newer fluff, the Salamanders have the Forge of Vulkan (not sure if that's the actual name) floating above Nocturne, that produces all their equipment. I do not believe it states if that includes all the way up to starships, however.

I don't thing the forge ship can make other ships.


the Salamandars probably get their ships from the nearest shipyard. then they probably heavely modify them once they have them.