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So here's my shot at a 2000 point Kan Wall. Depending on what I'm going against, I have it set up to be the same with one geared for anti infantry or set up with some anti armor:

HQ:

Big Mek w/KFF = 85 Pts
Big Mek w/KFF = 85 Pts

=170 Pts

Troops:

29x Shoota Boys 1 Nob w/PK and BP 2x Big Shoota 1x Rokkit = 240 pts
29x Shoota Boys 1 Nob w/PK and BP 2x Big Shoota 1x Rokkit = 240 pts
29x Shoota Boys 1 Nob w/PK and BP 2x Big Shoota 1x Rokkit = 240 pts

1x Deff Dread w/ 2x Skorchas, Grot Riggers = 90 pts
1x Deff Dread w/ 2x Skorchas, Grot Riggers = 90 Pts

=900 Pts


Heavy Support:

3x Killa Kan w/KMB or (Grotzooka, Armor Plates) = 165 pts (165 pts)
3x Killa Kan w/KMB or (Grotzooka, Armor Plates) = 165 pts (165 pts)
3x Killa Kan w/KMB or (Grotzooka, Armor Plates) = 165 pts (165 pts)

=495 Pts (495 pts)

Elites:

5x Lootas = 75
5x Lootas = 75
5x Lootas = 75

=225 Pts

Fast Attack:

1x Deffkopta w/TL Rokkit and Buzzsaw = 70 pts
1x Deffkopta w/TL Rokkit and Buzzsaw = 70 pts
1x Deffkopta w/TL Rokkit and Buzzsaw = 70 pts

=210 Pts



Total

2000 (2000)

I always wonder why people use lootas in squads of 5 or 8. I've been using them in squads of 15 and I'm still having difficulty poping chimeras and other AV12. Maybe its bad rolling?

terranarc wrote:I always wonder why people use lootas in squads of 5 or 8. I've been using them in squads of 15 and I'm still having difficulty poping chimeras and other AV12. Maybe its bad rolling?

You either want to run them in 5s or 15s due to leadership issues. I run them in 5s so I can put them in cover easier and get better target saturation. I've run into issues with AV12 as well, but mostly due to bad rolling, but have also had enough times where they've been successful enough to make lootas a must have for any ork list.

Drop the Dreads, and get more Lootas.
Put Rokkits on all the Kans.
You are currently hurting for anti-tank and will suffer greatly for it against anyone running heavy Mech.
(Of course you may already have this build based on your comments, but I can't be sure without seeing it.)

Also, Terranarc, lots of good reasons for running 5 loota units.
The two best arguments I have for it are, less loss on a leadership failure, and a more modular unit. You can split fire, hide behind smaller terrain, fit in to smaller gaps, etc.

Go with rokkits on the kans. All you get out of the mega blastas is AP2. Against armor the AP doesnt matter unless it AP 1.

Also you want Armor Plates on your dreds, other wise a Stun result will keep them from moving.

You also need 30 boyz for 3 special weapons. Right now you have 2 big shootas and a rokkit with 29 boyz. I suggest goign up to 30 boyz with 3 rokkits.

I am not a fan of lootas, but that a personal preferrance.

matphat wrote:Drop the Dreads, and get more Lootas.
Put Rokkits on all the Kans.
You are currently hurting for anti-tank and will suffer greatly for it against anyone running heavy Mech.
(Of course you may already have this build based on your comments, but I can't be sure without seeing it.)

Also, Terranarc, lots of good reasons for running 5 loota units.
The two best arguments I have for it are, less loss on a leadership failure, and a more modular unit. You can split fire, hide behind smaller terrain, fit in to smaller gaps, etc.

KMBs are the same as the rokkits, just 5 more points for ap 2 (thinking about termies).

I've been wondering about the dreads, I like 'em, but more lootas may throw off the balance of leadership. Maybe some gretchin would do some good coupled with a few more boys for objectives.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:Go with rokkits on the kans. All you get out of the mega blastas is AP2. Against armor the AP doesnt matter unless it AP 1.

Also you want Armor Plates on your dreds, other wise a Stun result will keep them from moving.

You also need 30 boyz for 3 special weapons. Right now you have 2 big shootas and a rokkit with 29 boyz. I suggest goign up to 30 boyz with 3 rokkits.

I am not a fan of lootas, but that a personal preferrance.

They're squads of 30 - 1 is a boy upgraded to a nob.

Rokkits are the ranged AT. By the time you get close enough to use the KMB's, enemy tanks have torn big chunks out of your army

orkboy232 wrote:Rokkits are the ranged AT. By the time you get close enough to use the KMB's, enemy tanks have torn big chunks out of your army

KMB = kustom mega blasta - str 8, ap 2, 24inch range - same as rokkits, just 5 points more for the ap 2. I play against termies fairly often and it helps.

OH, ok they are 30 strong. Sorry not use to seeing them written that way.

@Orkboy232: KMB have the same range as rokkits.

I like KMB's. And if the OP plays against termies a lot they can come in handy.

I never seem to remember the 24" range To use to my IG I guess. Since the overall range is the same you should be okay then

Amour Plates are a wasted upgrade on your Kans, since Vehicle squadrons automatically downgrade Stuns to Shaken anyways. Only the last Kan remaining in the squad would benefit from the wargear.

I would also choose Armour Plates instead of Grot Riggers for your DeffDreads. You want them to keep moving regardless of "Stunned" results. Keep Grot Riggers if you can, but if you can't, Big Meks can always fix them.

Otherwise, good list, I like it. Personally I'd always bring 3 Kans w/ Grotzookas.

Murrdox wrote:Amour Plates are a wasted upgrade on your Kans, since Vehicle squadrons automatically downgrade Stuns to Shaken anyways. Only the last Kan remaining in the squad would benefit from the wargear.

I would also choose Armour Plates instead of Grot Riggers for your DeffDreads. You want them to keep moving regardless of "Stunned" results. Keep Grot Riggers if you can, but if you can't, Big Meks can always fix them.

Otherwise, good list, I like it. Personally I'd always bring 3 Kans w/ Grotzookas.

Hmm that opens some options on that load out (taking away armor plating on the kans). Probably add a squad of gretchin and armor plating on the dreads for that one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Updated list -- The points totals without parentheses are going to be my core list, with the totals in parentheses being an alternate list geared more towards anti infantry.

The changes are:

Both Deff Dreads now have Grot Riggers and Armor plates in both lists, Kans no longer have armor plating on either list, making up the points with a squad of gretchin. To get the armor and grots on the Dreads for both lists, I removed a buzzsaw from one of the koptas (I don't find myself using them all that often anyway, and in the case where I would [anti infantry] I have saws on all 3) -- I'm pretty stoked to give this a list a shot, especially against my friends Dark Angels list.

HQ:

Big Mek w/KFF = 85 Pts
Big Mek w/KFF = 85 Pts

=170 Pts

Troops:

30x Shoota Boys 1 Nob w/PK and BP 2x Big Shoota 1x Rokkit = 240 pts
30x Shoota Boys 1 Nob w/PK and BP 2x Big Shoota 1x Rokkit = 240 pts
30x Shoota Boys 1 Nob w/PK and BP 2x Big Shoota 1x Rokkit = 240 pts

1x Deff Dread w/ 2x Skorchas, Grot Riggers, Armor Plates = 100 pts
1x Deff Dread w/ 2x Skorchas, Grot Riggers, Armor Plates = 100 pts

(19x Gretchin, 1x Runtherd) = (67 pts)

=920 Pts (987 pts)


Heavy Support:

3x Killa Kan w/KMB or (Grotzooka) = 165 pts (135 pts)
3x Killa Kan w/KMB or (Grotzooka) = 165 pts (135 pts)
3x Killa Kan w/KMB or (Grotzooka) = 165 pts (135 pts)

=495 Pts (405 pts)

Elites:

5x Lootas = 75
5x Lootas = 75
5x Lootas = 75

=225 Pts

Fast Attack:

1x Deffkopta w/TL Rokkit and Buzzsaw = 70 pts
1x Deffkopta w/TL Rokkit and Buzzsaw = 70 pts
1x Deffkopta w/TL Rokkit = 45 pts or (1x Deffkopta w/TL Rokkit and Buzzsaw) = (70 pts)

=185 pts (210 Pts)



Total

1995 (1997)

That's a very standard vanilla Kan wall list if I've ever seen one. Good job, I guess....

Am I missing something about taking KMB for anti terminators over Rokkits? Aren't rokkits Str 8 and force invul saves on the strength of being twice the terminators toughness. KMB seems to only be worth it for high toughness baddies with good armor, like big bugs or marine HQs....

The one thing I don't like is the mix of Big Shootas and Rokkits in the same unit of Boyz.

Unlike a lot of people, I like Big Shootas, but mixing the two is basically a waste of shots. If you're targeting infantry, the rokkit's going to smish anything it hits, but you're losing the opportunity to hit two more times, and if you're targeting armor, you've only got one chance to get it right. Given Ork BS, I don't like those odds

Rokkits and big shootas don't go as already mentioned, rest is a pretty standard Kan list.

A lot of people seem to be confusing what the KMB can do. It's exactly like a Rokkit, but with better AP. That's it. It's an Energy Rokkit that melts holes in Termies. Double Toughness doesn't force an Invuln save, it just causes ID if any saves are failed. The only way to force the 5+ invuln (if they have it) instead of the 2+ save is with AP2, which KMBs are, for just 5 points more.

I think people get in the "KMB are bad" mindset from them being a less than ideal upgrade for Meks in Loota mobs where their range is shorter than everyone else's.

KMB's are ok, just more pricey and thats not the orky way. I always take rokkits, on everything except boys, i dont want my boys shooting.

I run a very similar list. I take 9 kans with rokkits, 2 dreads with 2 rokkits each, 9 rokkit buggies, 120 boys, 2 big meks with kff. It is a newer list i am playing, but it has been beyond effective. I have played four 5th ed codexes and i beat them heartily and with no remorse. I beat DE in an objective mission 3-1 and he had very little left, i beat BA in objectives 2-0, all he had was one jump pack unit and an immobilized vindicator left, I played an IG leafblower list in annihaltion and won 10-3, and then i was one single model from tabling a grey knight army. I was not even close to losing any of these games, I still had about 65- 75% of my army in all of these games while my opponents had under 30% of theirs remaining.

Dodgywop wrote:. . . making up the points with a squad of gretchin. To get the armor and grots on the Dreads for both lists, I removed a buzzsaw from one of the koptas (I don't find myself using them all that often anyway, and in the case where I would [anti infantry] I have saws on all 3)

1x Deffkopta w/TL Rokkit and Buzzsaw = 70 pts
1x Deffkopta w/TL Rokkit and Buzzsaw = 70 pts
1x Deffkopta w/TL Rokkit = 45 pts or (1x Deffkopta w/TL Rokkit and Buzzsaw) = (70 pts)

The buzzsaw's utility is primarily anti-armor. The scout move should set up an easy first turn charge against an immobile tank. Koptas aren't well suited for anti-infantry duties. If you don't go first, they should probably outflank and hope for the best.

pzbw7z wrote:

Dodgywop wrote:. . . making up the points with a squad of gretchin. To get the armor and grots on the Dreads for both lists, I removed a buzzsaw from one of the koptas (I don't find myself using them all that often anyway, and in the case where I would [anti infantry] I have saws on all 3)

1x Deffkopta w/TL Rokkit and Buzzsaw = 70 pts
1x Deffkopta w/TL Rokkit and Buzzsaw = 70 pts
1x Deffkopta w/TL Rokkit = 45 pts or (1x Deffkopta w/TL Rokkit and Buzzsaw) = (70 pts)

The buzzsaw's utility is primarily anti-armor. The scout move should set up an easy first turn charge against an immobile tank. Koptas aren't well suited for anti-infantry duties. If you don't go first, they should probably outflank and hope for the best.

I guess I don't use all that much considering they are only Str 6 and most armor that is low enough for that to do damage to, is already taken care of by the rokkits, Kans or Lootas.

Dodgywop wrote:

I guess I don't use all that much considering they are only Str 6 and most armor that is low enough for that to do damage to, is already taken care of by the rokkits, Kans or Lootas.

Str 7. Even buzzkoptas have Furious Charge. They are only good at taking out vehicles with rear-AV10.