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@ Everybody in general, isn't this wrong?

Dashofpepper wrote:

The skimmer's model doesn't get removed, and the base left, but the other way 'round. The StormRaven itself needs to get set down, and the based pulled off the table. Is there something, someplace about StormRavens that by-passes the usual practice of placing the wrecked skimmer model on the table?

This was culled from DoP's Game 5 tourney thread.

Yes, you remove the base and place the skimmer on the table. I'm not sure what logic would prompt someone to want to leave the base instead.

insaniak wrote:Yes, you remove the base and place the skimmer on the table. I'm not sure what logic would prompt someone to want to leave the base instead.

Been happening tons. I see it in Batrep pix and at the LGS.

Izzit happening in your neck-of-the-woods?

The time that it's happened to me (I haven't played a lot of GK games yet) we found it to be a total pain in the ass to find a way to put it on the ground that didn't require reshuffling a whole bunch of guys. The fact that its footprint is drastically bigger off the base than on is difficult to deal with.

The BRB states that a model occupies the area of its base. Extra junk sticking out is not relevant.

Count the base for terrain, say its impassable and your can't shoot through it.

This works if the model would require shuffling of figures and such. If they are relatively the same or you can do it quickly, get the model down. Less thinking means more fun!!

-cgmckenzie

It may be that the Stormraven got 6: Exploded result instead of 5: Wrecked result, I know at my FLGS we use the base as a crater per the BrB rule about 6: exploded, where it says that you must place a crater to represent the exploded vehicle...perhaps they were using it as a crater.

Good call, Sanguinius. I've definitely seen folks use the base as a crater for Explodes! results.

Of course, I HAVE also seen folks use it in lieu of the actual model for Wrecked results too, which is wrong. This mostly happens when other models are crowded in close and you can't put the skimmer down without resting/leaning it on top of other models and possibly damaging them.

This issue has been discussed in YMDC before, and I think the best solution I've seen identified is to just leave the Wrecked skimmer on its base at that point. The rulebook DOES tell us to remove the skimmer from its base "if possible", and that if not we can leave it on, and imagine that the wrecked hull is still being held in the air by the partially-functioning grav lifters. Now usually it's only impossible to remove the base if it's glued on, but I think "would have to lie on top of other models and possibly damage them" is another situation in which we can legitimately read that it is not possible to remove the base. This avoids the whole issue of shuffling models around and fudging positions.

cgmckenzie wrote:The BRB states that a model occupies the area of its base. Extra junk sticking out is not relevant.

Count the base for terrain, say its impassable and your can't shoot through it.

Both of these statements are incorrect under the rules.

For a SKIMMER SPECIFICALLY, the base is nearly irrelevant. It's the hull that matters, like every other vehicle. The only thing you use the base for is assaulting IF you can't reach the hull. The Stormraven and Valkyrie have some additional special rules making the base matter for disembarking and for objectives, which were instituted just because the darn model is so high up.

A wrecked vehicle is difficult and dangerous terrain, not impassible.

cgmckenzie wrote:This works if the model would require shuffling of figures and such. If they are relatively the same or you can do it quickly, get the model down. Less thinking means more fun!!

I can totally understand and agree with coming to a quickie resolution with a friend if the model's a PITA and you don't want to deal with it, but the purpose if this forum is, in large part, to help us figure out that the rules ACTUALLY say, so we canboth play it right and save time at the table and not waste time arguing when we're face to face with a friend and a beer.

So, it's basically handled in whichever way is agreeable to both opponents. In the example, if it's agreeable to both opponents, then it's no issue. However, from the original thread, this became a 30-40 minute debate and wait for a judge to make the call.

A gray area of the rules which require some player agreement.

More of a practical problem than a rules problem. The rules are clear, the storm raven drops or stays on the stand, it becomes difficult and dangerous terrain after that, so anything trying it fell on is now in dangerous and difficult terrain. However, you usually don't want a vehicle standing on your models.

Another reason for the picture could be the stormraven temporarily taken off the stand, as it's very easy to knock it over during assault, speaking from experience...

Damn, you're right. I thought wrecks were impassable for some reason. Since you can traverse it, you need it there cause the fiddly bits matter when it's terrain.

My bad, ignore my previous post.

-cgmckenzie

Sanguinis wrote:It may be that the Stormraven got 6: Exploded result instead of 5: Wrecked result, I know at my FLGS we use the base as a crater per the BrB rule about 6: exploded, where it says that you must place a crater to represent the exploded vehicle...perhaps they were using it as a crater.

If you read the Batrep, it says, "wreck."

they probably didn't want to have to move the models and clearly deliniate the area of Difficult/Dangerous terrain.

For a Wreck it is legally appropriate; you do not have to have Skimmers removed from their bases, it is entirely optional.

Explodes is even more fun as you technically place the Crater where the model used to be(so about 5" above the table).

using just the base is fine(after all pieces may be falling off of the Floating pile of slag), and for all we know the Model was removed from the base purely for the Photograph