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Well, following GWs recent shenanigans and after much soul searching, musing and generally chewing the fat, my gaming group has decided to switch en masse to Mantic.

I decided to go for undead (feeling nostalgic for the 'Skeleton Horde' box I got from GW when I was 12 ) and ordered Mantic's 'Undead Warhost' - 20x Skeletons, 20x Revenants, 10x Ghouls and a Balefire Catapult. Not too shabby for £27 with free postage from Maelstrom

Whilst I'm waiting for that to arrive in the post I have been playing around with some army lists but could do with some advice from those who have already played the game. From reading the rules it seems that Heroes are not the game-winning force they are in Warhammer (which is good IMHO) but nevertheless are still essential in an Undead army for their Heal and Dark Surge powers. Is it best to max out on Heroes for their spellcasting or would this take away too many points from combat units?
Also, I am looking at running a fully maxed Skeleton Phalanx (Horde of 40 with Spears, full command and UGRoatD) which weighs in at 270 points - this is a big beast capable of inflicting a lot of damage and sticking around indefinately but is it too many eggs in one basket, especially against missile heavy armies (my two most regular opponents have plumped for elves and abyssal dwarfs)?

Thanks in advance, C_C

Welcome to the ranks of the undead, enjoy your stay for it will be very, very long.

Thread related, I try to go with a mix of spellcasters and one or two combat heroes, but definatly try to get a Battle standard or two into that list. They really help anchor your line.

Also, you may want to try out this addition to battlescribe (its made my life easier lol) : http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=306075

I placed an order on 27th before price hike , its still awaiting stock -_-

I want my mantic stuff :3

You will want Necromancers, and maybe a mix of them and liche kings at higher points levels. Dark Surge is required to counter your shambling hordes, and you need healers to ensure that stuff survives to reach the enemy.

Using Zombies to screen your skeletons, and with fast units like Wraiths and Ghouls running up the flanks.

An army standard could be useful, but since Shambling already means you ignore wavering, you don't really need the re-roll from Inspiring unless you're really taking damage (which brings us back to having lots of Necromancers to heal your units up).

Balefire Catapults aren't really used a lot. Only having 6+ Ra hinders them severely. You'll be getting about 2 or 3 hits, if that, and whilst Piercing (2) helps you somewhat, it won't kill everything. Save Balefires until you start facing small units of tough enemies or monsters/tough characters, where you need the piercing strikes more than the attacks.

I would personally avoid the combat heroes until larger point games, getting your main troops over with as little damage as possible is key, and for that you need to invest heavily in Necromancers and Liche Kings, as they're the staples that will hold your army together.

Without healing and surges, your troops will be torn apart from range, and close combat armies will be faster than you, leading to you possibly facing many charges from different angles.

Thanks for the input, guys

@lord marcus - I'll try that link later (work blocked at the mo)

@lunahound - hope you get your stuff soon - I've never had any problems getting stuff quickly, but I do live about 40mins away...

@Avatar 720 - You've pretty well crystallised my thoughts, I was planning on getting the four-heroes-in-a-box as my next purchase so I could get the 2 necromancers and try out a standard bearer (probably running behind my Phalanx - those are the guys I'll need to stay on the table) and look at a liche king later when the army has expanded a bit.

On Balefires - do they work well as a group? I was thinking of getting 3 and letting them volley into one unit - 30 attacks with the cover-ignoring indirect fire should average 5 hits at piercing (2) - is this viable for whittling down big units?

I wouldn't target big units with balefires. Small units are best due to their low nerve values, aiming for larger units such as Hordes will barely dent them, and a healer will be able to wipe the damage off next turn.

Groups of balefires should aim to rout small elite units in one or two volleys so you don't give them a chance to be healed. Cavalry are good targets, being only 5 or 10 in number and 3 or 6 Nerve to match; elite troops like Ironguard are also perfect tagrets for balefires, where their piercing shots can deal damage despite the high defence.

On a modeling side note, if you are looking to change up your balefire's, a small dremel can take off those skulls in the launch very easily. Also, I'd reccommend picking up some extra mantic bases and using a little creativity to make some extra zombies out of the box.

And on a totally off-topic note, should we start up a KoW showcase for people to post pic's of thier mantic armies growth?

The list i swear by is a zombie hoard screening a necromancer 2 regiments in the middle, followed by a necromancer, followed by a Revenant horde, with 2 units of wraiths up the side. I don't run any ranged, but usually that's not too much of a problem. even shambling up to a gunline, the 2 necromancers keeping everyone patched up are usually enough to keep things together

EDIT: In a 1k point game, this leaves you 100 points for upgrades. Usually i add a musician/standard (I use the same model for both, usually the empty hood head ) to the revenant and skeletons

So, the undead warhost arrived in the post last week, but due to circumstances I only started putting it together last night.

First impressions - that's a lot of stuff for £30 and I love the styling

Casting is not the best I've ever seen (the catapult in particular has some bad mold lines on) but fortunately being plastic it cleans up easily.

I have one complaint, though - the basic skeleton regiment has hand weapons and spears, but not enough spears to go around! There are only 14 spears and 2 broken spears in the set for 20 models. Plus, 6 of the skellies are pre-moulded one-piece with hand weapons, so you would have to cut these off and drill out the hands to insert spears... I'll need to do some serious thinking about my purchases to chop and convert to give me all the spears I need for my Phalanx.

Verdict: B+

It's like WHFB (or what it was in 7th) in that you don't need every model to have the same weapon, even less so in KoW because no single models from a unit are removed.

As long as enough models in the unit have spears to tell them apart, nobody should have any issues.

Ok guys quick question. How many spells can the likes of Mhorgoth cast per turn?

taylor048 wrote:Ok guys quick question. How many spells can the likes of Mhorgoth cast per turn?

page 10 of the rules:
"If a unit has two or more types of ranged
attacks (including magical ones), it can only use
one per turn."

Well, played my first game last night and had a blast (even though I went down hard )

400pts Undead (me) vs 400pts Abyssal Dwarves.

I desperately need a necromancer (or 2) as what really mullered me was a lack of Dark Surge, allowing his decimators to slap me about with their Thunderpipes before I could get a charge off. Ghouls I'm loving for their speed (Mv 6 and the only non-shambling unit) even though they die fast (at least they did when they got charged in the flank by a troop of 2-handed-axe-wielding immortals, ouch...)

All in all a terrific game, can't wait for the next one

If you're reading this and haven't played the game, do it now!!!!!!

let me check my list

28mm scale

dload free rules & codex so im not going to worry about MI5 put me on a blacklist for talking about army points online

and i can buy an huge army of 120 figures for 65 quid

http://www.manticgames.com/Shop-Home/Undead/Army-Deals/Product/Helikaeths-Undead-Legion-Army-Deal.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kings_of_War

Unboxing Kings of War Mhorgoth's Revenge Battle Set
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H49JJMTAcoY

Unpacking - Mantic Games Undead Army Box Set
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDWfp1YjDCQ&feature=related

It just goes to show how much Games Workshop has ripped me off. (and everyone off) I started building a a 40k Space Marine army for the first time a couple of weeks back , ive spent nearly 150 quid for 50 basic troops , that's 3 quid a pop compared to 60p per troop had i gone with Mantics offerings









The Undead styling is quite nice. Im not going to complain when im paying 7.99 for 10 soldiers , the same money would buy me just one space marine terminator 1

http://www.manticgames.com/Shop-Home/Undead/Core-Units-Troops/Product/Undead-Skeleton-Command-10-Figures.html

http://www.manticgames.com/Shop-Home/Getting-Started/Army-Set-Bundles/Product/Deluxe-Undead-Starter-Set.html

This set includes:

* 50 Skeletons with Command
* 20 armoured skeletal Revenants with Command
* 20 Ghouls
* 30 Zombies
* Undead Poster Guide and Sticker Sheets
* 10 Mantic Points
* 120 20mm bases
* 1 x Black Paint 15ML
* 1 x White Paint 15ML
* 1 x Red Paint 15ML
* 1 x Blue Paint 15ML
* 1 x Armour Paint 15ML
* 1 x Bone Paint 15ML
* 1 x Paint Brush
* 1 x Mantic Clippers
* 1 x Plastic Glue 12ML
* Mantic Messenger Bag


Product code: Price: £64.99 for 120 soldiers ( plus some paints , brush , clippers, glue , carry bag to get me started )

I think thats thier best deal. You get 120 models at effectlivly half a pound each, and all the things a newbie needs. glue, paints, etc.

Played my fourth game in as many weeks last night. My Undead joined forces with some Abyssal Dwarfs to take on a larger Elf army. This was 800 points and the first game where we've had characters (pace is slow, mainly due to lack of cash and painting time, but we'll get to 2k in a few months I hope ).

Took another beating as the Elf hero was a Lord on Battle Dragon that kept surprising us with its effectiveness. I thought it was a bad move as I had not rated the big beasts in KoW at all and figured that with 90 Infantry and 2 Warmachines led by an Iron Caster we could easily squish his 40 Infantry and 1 Warmachine and then pick off the dragon by doing a few points of damage.

How wrong can you be...

10" move and fly is unbelievably maneouvreable and he just ran rings round us all night until he could get in a rear charge and take out a unit, or just breathing on us.

Tips for the future - stay together in the face of big flying beasties. He was wary of it being charged and wouldn't attack head-on. Also, get a fast unit (Wraiths and/or Cavalry have moved to near the top of my 'to buy' list) and keep it behind the lines as a mobile reserve to make sure I can get a charge off when my front line gets flown over.


Still loving this game and can't wait to get paid so I can order some more stuff