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hey i am an absolute unequivical noob when it comes to this. just started collecting CSM and wanted to just join in with some friends who just started collecting. i was discussing what units to buy and paint and whatnot, and was thinking khorne beserkers and plague marines as well as basic CSM for troops, eventually getting abbadon just for fun, when he kinda stoped me and said that i couldnt really have abbadon and khorne beserkers as they worshipped different gods and its kinda fluff contradictory. i told him that it doesnt seem to violate any codex rules, and if i was confined to just one god then CSM would hardly be playable. then he said that would be like him having space wolves and getting marneus calgar, where i pointed out that is a different codex, he just responded with "but CSM only have one codex". Now im certain im in the right here, but is there any pointers you can give me on making a good argument as to why different chaos units would work in the same army. I just feel that this is the kinda fluff hard group that would try and call me on that stuff.

Srry if there is another thread on roughly this subject

You are 100% right, if its in the codex, and follows the FoC its perfectly fine.

Also, Abbadon follows all 4 gods, so technically he follows the same as those berzerkers

Fluff wise you can do a black legion army witch worships all 4 equally and if you wanted one god abby would still work has he has the mark of the chaos accedent witch is all 4 marks in one.

Game wise theres nothing stopping you from mixing gods all the competative lists do but most people like to stick to one god for fun play.

My tourny list used slanesh princes plague marienes and khorne berzerkers as do most competative chaos lists but for fun lists i love using noise marienes or thousand sons(i just dont use psy powers if im facing good psy defense.)

All in all its player prefrence the csm codex is one dex where wolves and space marienes are two different codexs.

Abaddon is leader of the Black legion and chaos undivided which means it would be more against fluff if he only one god theme in his army. I don't know what your friend is on about.

Also, servants of chaos gods can work together fine according to fluff, especially if Abaddon is present or any chaos undidvided. There are even example paint schemes in the codex for undivided khorne berserkers!

But still, fluff doesn't matter that much.

It actually recommends using the Black Legion (who Abbadon is the leader of) when using all 4 chaos gods. You are 100% in the right. Tell your friend to read up on fluff before he makes fluff suggestions.

Thanks for the input guys. Yeh its not some much the fact that i had abaddon but more that he has read all the books and just doesnt know an army that fields those two marines at the same time. Cause he reads all the novels and whatnot.

Black Legion it is!

What everyone else has said. Not only that, but Abaddon has been the leader of the Black Crusades, which had support from all the chaos legions, including the world eaters that the Khorne Berserkers usually come from. There is absolutely nothing stopping you rules wise or fluff wise from doing it, and his Space Wolves with Marneus Calgar assessment is just terribly poor. Chaos doesn't follow the contrived organizational system of the Codex Astartes and the Imperial Chapter system.

Also gently point out to him that fluff is not rules. If he's going to get bent out of shape every time something happens on the table top that goes against fluff he is in for one miserable 40K experience.

Otherwise his head might actually explode when he runs into, oh I dunno, somebody using the Blood Angels codex for their Raven Guard for example.

I play imperial guard and fluff wise you would not really see Yarrick (armagedon), Creed Kell (Cadian 8th), and Harker (Catachan Devils) all in one army but I do it. Like stated before fluff is there for background info only the army does not have to follow it. If its all in one codex and it fits in a force org then your good to go.

Also, it is stated that special characters are not necessarily ACTUALLY that character, but can be some other dude that has the same profile and rules. I'll see if I can find the exact location.

The thing that was nice about this version of the Codex was that it focused of Chaos Warbands, instead of Legions. Where as before your army pretty much had to be one god, now you can have all four. We lost cool legion specific rules, but now we can mix and match.

Fluff wise, there are chaos warbands, who all team together to screw with the imperium in what ever way possible. And sure they might all hate each other, but they hate the emperor more, so until he's dead they'll put up with the bad company. If you read some of the old rules for Raptors or Oblits, those units don't belong to any legion/chapter imparticular. The Oblits have cults that will go along with anyone who promises them new tech, and Raptors are douche bags who think their better than everyone else and kinda have their own clan things. So let your friend say what he will, there should be a new Codex out soon anyways. Just buy him a box of tissue for when you beat him.

Its good to know that if he trys to pull any of that fluff crap i can just point out that its just filler and rules is rules. Also that its not exactly contradictory to fluff either, so got all my bases covered. Thanks again everyone contributing to the topic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Shrike325 wrote:Also, it is stated that special characters are not necessarily ACTUALLY that character, but can be some other dude that has the same profile and rules. I'll see if I can find the exact location.

that would be awesome mate

Found it:
Space Marines Codex page 127, box on the right:

...Alternatively, you can use the model and rules for a named character to represent a mighty hero of a different Chapter - for example, using the rules and model for Marneus Calagar as the Chapter master of the Imperial Fists...

Martymunster wrote:Thanks for the input guys. Yeh its not some much the fact that i had abaddon but more that he has read all the books and just doesnt know an army that fields those two marines at the same time. Cause he reads all the novels and whatnot.

The fluff doesn't govern what you can and can't take in your army. If it did, half of the special characters currently in the game would be unusable, on account of them being dead, and the other half would not be able to fight against each other due to having lived thousands of years apart.

The fluff is a starting point, nothing more.

In addition to this, there is actually old fluff of Abaddon actually leading a Berzerker charge against some Blood Angels (I can't for the life of me remember where, I think it was the 2nd edition codex). And he's also the leader of the Black Legion (not to mention the Warmaster of all the Chaos forces!), who are known for worshipping whichever god is more convenient at the time.

In other words, your friend has no idea what he's talking about.

Edit: yep, it's in the 2nd edition Chaos Codex where he leads a band of Berzerkers against some BA Devastators, on a planet called Mackan.

Cheexsta wrote:In addition to this, there is actually old fluff of Abaddon actually leading a Berzerker charge against some Blood Angels (I can't for the life of me remember where, I think it was the 2nd edition codex). And he's also the leader of the Black Legion (not to mention the Warmaster of all the Chaos forces!), who are known for worshipping whichever god is more convenient at the time.

In other words, your friend has no idea what he's talking about.

Edit: yep, it's in the 2nd edition Chaos Codex where he leads a band of Berzerkers against some BA Devastators, on a planet called Mackan.

Oh it's on now

Also thank you Shrike

As everyone has said, there is nothing preventing you from using an army that violates the fluff as long as it's allowed according to your codex. For instance, my Orks are Bad Moonz and I included Ghazghkhull Thraka in them, even though he is clearly stated to be a Goff in the fluff.

Martymunster wrote:Thanks for the input guys. Yeh its not some much the fact that i had abaddon but more that he has read all the books and just doesnt know an army that fields those two marines at the same time. Cause he reads all the novels and whatnot.

Black Legion it is!

He should read the word bearers books, where the word bearers legion (an undivided legion, and the "origional" CSM depending on how you look at it) have a unit of Khorne bersekers within their ranks, it wounldn't be a stretch to have units that have dedicated themselves to other gods in such a way.

Also take a look at page 65 of the CSM codex, where there is clearly a picture of Huron (undivided) leading an army with some plauge marines.
Page 76 and 77, the example army list shows undivided and Khorne units in the same army.
After that the double page spread of Abbadon force actually shows several units with different marks, aswell as even several units with different legion colours.

Not only is your stance supported by the rules, the pictures are on your side to!

If fluff is a problem, write your own. Simple solution and might be fun if you are into that sorta thing.

-cgmckenzie

If you take Abbaddon it would actually be very fluffy to have 1 unit of Khorne Bezerkers, 1 unit of Noise Marines, 1 unit of Plague Marines, and 1 unit of Thousand Sons in the same army list. have 2 squads of normal chaos marines for the other 2 Troops slots to round out the Undivided Theme.