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and you didn't!

How do you generally cope with Abaddons, Mephistons, Draigos, Swarmlords, etc.?

I ask because I'm about to begin building my DoA list. I can see enemy HQs being an issue because I may very well have to drop in next to them. I believe I'll have to simply Melta the ever-loving crap out of them as soon as possible. The good thing is that they can only engage one unit at a time. Normally, I simply avoid them with my Dark Eldar.

Really depends on your army. If you can reliably shoot them that's always a strategy. With my nids I try to bait them into charging a sacrificial unit then get in a counter charge with something that has a good chance of killing. Also bringing in multiple units can help.

Hell, even avoiding the monster HQ can be a good choice if you have the movement.

Close Combat monsters like that are better shot at or tarpitted. However, with a DOA list, you will probably have to rely on a full squad on the charge putting all of your attacks on it since they are their own units in CC (except the SL with Hive Guard). Not a good situation to be in with that list, for sure.

Not a BA player but...

With my Tau, I shoot them.

With my Sisters, I shoot them.

With my GK, I send in the 100pt Brotherhood Champion... and laugh, laugh, laugh. Or shoot them.

I think it really depends on which monster HQ and what army you are playing, but I think that in general you should either focus fire them down with long range fire/a big assault, or ignore them / stall them while you dismantle the rest of their army.

With DOA BA, the main thing is that you move and deploy in such a way that you get the charge off on scary units, and that you gang up if you need too. Nobody likes getting hit by 4 meltas, and then being charged by 20 fnp furious charge marines.

Whether you gang up on them first or avoid them until you've killed everything else depends on the HQ and what you have available at the time. Sometimes its better to throw a few small units at them while the rest of your army kills their army, and sometimes. They simply have to die fist.

Whether I avoid or kill those pesky units depends on whether I drop drop it quickly. Many characters can be instant deathed by the likes of a lascannon. If so, a quick volley can drop them nicely and put a real downer on the enemys moral. On the other hand. It's rare that independant characters will be targetable in shooting and unless they're starting to pose a threat, i'll avoid them but keep a close eye on what they're upto.

Agreed, I normally choose to shoot the big scary things down. Im not a fan of using special characters so I have to be more creative then "just throw Ghazzy at it" and thats how I do it. Lootas mixed with a blob of shoota boyz or two will usually put the hurtin on whatever it is enough so that when I charge it, Ill come out the winner

Usually if you are outclassed, AVOID, AVOID, AVOID! Why waste units on the enemy you can't beat? Holding out until the end of the game and focusing on what you need to do to win (ie getting objectives, killing off enemy units, whatever) is the best course. Don't be distracted by his BIGBAD. Throw it a sacrificial lamb if you must (30 Grots) and tie him up while meanwhile you are going for the win.

shot da choppy onez!

lootas, kannonz, big shootas, and even deffrolla, even if they DoG and blow up my wagon that's 2 D6 str 10 hits ... its gonna hurt somehting

I... uh... just swamp 'em to be honest. Whittle down any unit he (or they!) may be part of, then pile in with dozens of boyz, and some Kanz and the odd Deff Dread if he managed to not get immobilized.

I don't always kill 'em, but if not I at least often manage to hold them in place to stop them from smashing up my guys holding the objectives.

In annihilation games, I suppose I'm guilty of just emptying my box of models onto the scary guys. Do I always kill him(them)? Nope, but it doesn't feel right running away

Its just a local superiority of forces game.

Try to avoid taking on the big baddy and focus down other parts of the army. Once you have a sufficient advantage then you can go after the big baddy, but its even better if you can maneuver so that its a non-issue.

Always try to bait CC units into going off to a remote and unimportant section of the board with your shooting or mobile units. Although there are many factors in the result of the game, if you don't set up a winning position in the movement phase you can't win. Learn to use the movement phase to gain any advantage in time or space that you can.

Send your big baddy vs theirs.

Some big baddies are bigger and baddyier then others

Opponents deathstar unit (a 1500p game btw, all his eggs in one basket) of TH/SS termis with mephiston. Power blob tarpit for nigh on the whole game. But meltas are nice for killing those high toughness nasties

winnertakesall wrote:Opponents deathstar unit (a 1500p game btw, all his eggs in one basket) of TH/SS termis with mephiston. Power blob tarpit for nigh on the whole game. But meltas are nice for killing those high toughness nasties

Mephiston in a unit of terminators? Impossible. He lacks the IC rule, so can't join squads.

KingCracker wrote:Some big baddies are bigger and baddyier then others

True. I usually run a deathstar just because it's fun, so I generally hunt down opponent's deathstars because that's even more fun... New skulls for the trophy rack? Yes please!

Although, to be fair, the question was "what do you do if you don't have a big bad HQ", and really my only real suggestions are:
-Shoot it
-Tarpit it
-Avoid it

notabot187 wrote:

winnertakesall wrote:Opponents deathstar unit (a 1500p game btw, all his eggs in one basket) of TH/SS termis with mephiston. Power blob tarpit for nigh on the whole game. But meltas are nice for killing those high toughness nasties

Mephiston in a unit of terminators? Impossible. He lacks the IC rule, so can't join squads.

They weren't together, sorry, I wrote that on an ipod, he tried to use them to hit two different points and 'shatter' my line, expecting me to take on a gunline. I simply blobbed him to death.

I will agree having a tarpit unit like a properly build powerblob, DE wyches, or some other hard to kill unit is invaluable. Heck, even an AV12-13 walker will tie up scary HQs all game, unless they have S8+, there just isn't much they can do against you (and even then, the numbers aren't good if the walker has S10 DCCWs)

You shouldn't drop next to it if it scares you obviously. Unless you think you can melta something important and don't care if the combat squad dies

Old Zogwurts Curse. Effective at destroying anything that is insanely hard to kill(IC only) and makes them into a squiggly beast. Its a win-win scenario; you no longer have to deal with a gigantic threat and they get to honor of controlling a squig!

-cgmckenzie

cgmckenzie wrote:Old Zogwurts Curse. Effective at destroying anything that is insanely hard to kill(IC only) and makes them into a squiggly beast. Its a win-win scenario; you no longer have to deal with a gigantic threat and they get to honor of controlling a squig!

-cgmckenzie

Note that this ONLY works if you have a squig model for them to control

its in da rules

Definatly shoot them. Mega HQ's have a habit of being close combat mosters. shooting them down means that you dont have to waste your assault units and you wont lose any line infantry if you ignore it. lascannons are very useful for such a task but in a DoA army meltas are your best shot.

I RAGEQUIT! No seriously though the same way you should deal with everything, drown it in boyz.

Grey Templar wrote:

cgmckenzie wrote:Old Zogwurts Curse. Effective at destroying anything that is insanely hard to kill(IC only) and makes them into a squiggly beast. Its a win-win scenario; you no longer have to deal with a gigantic threat and they get to honor of controlling a squig!

-cgmckenzie

Note that this ONLY works if you have a squig model for them to control

its in da rules

What self respecting ork player doesn't have at least a dozen squigs in their army box?

-cgmckenzie

cgmckenzie wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:

cgmckenzie wrote:Old Zogwurts Curse. Effective at destroying anything that is insanely hard to kill(IC only) and makes them into a squiggly beast. Its a win-win scenario; you no longer have to deal with a gigantic threat and they get to honor of controlling a squig!

-cgmckenzie

Note that this ONLY works if you have a squig model for them to control

its in da rules

What self respecting ork player doesn't have at least a dozen squigs in their army box?

-cgmckenzie

ahhh, but if you were truly dedicated to old Zoggy you would have a seperate squig for every IC in the game.


Squig crawling out of Clagar's Termy armor,

Squig holding Dante's axe in its mouth trying to swing it,

Squig surrounded by collapsed Necrodermis,

Squig standing on top of Draigo's SS wondering how his awsome pwning streak ended,

Squig on Space Pope's little pope-hovermobile,

Squig with a commissar hat,

Squig with standing over Drazhar's blades,

and so on...

Grey Templar wrote:


ahhh, but if you were truly dedicated to old Zoggy you would have a seperate squig for every IC in the game.


Squig crawling out of Clagar's Termy armor,

Squig holding Dante's axe in its mouth trying to swing it,

Squig surrounded by collapsed Necrodermis,

Squig standing on top of Draigo's SS wondering how his awsome pwning streak ended,

Squig on Space Pope's little pope-hovermobile,

Squig with a commissar hat,

Squig with standing over Drazhar's blades,

and so on...

You are win


On topic:
Remember your target priority:

1. Anything about to charge you
2. Transports
3.Summoners
4.targets that will get you KPs/objectives or deny them KP/ Objectives
5. Specific Threats to key units

Unless the big bad falls into one of those categories, ignore him until he does.

Grey Templar wrote:

Note that this ONLY works if you have a squig model for them to control

its in da rules

What self respecting ork player doesn't have at least a dozen squigs in their army box?

-cgmckenzie

I compare the threat that the big boy represents to my plans vs the ease of dispatching it. Cases:

1) high threat, high ease - pop it!
2) high threat, low ease - must compare to other units
3) low threat - ignore it!

Often, the opponent will make things easy for you in the above decision:

A deceiver ambling towards your lines can be ignored for a few turns because he is so slow. A SM special character hiding around an objective he cannot claim is often easy to ignore. A high T character against poison weapons is easy to pop. A big nasty in reserve often does not show up until too late.

Obviously, case #2 is hardest to judge. But, it gets easier if you stick to the correct set of priorities - focus on the mission and on your plan. Undermine the opponent's overall disposition and chances for victory. Dealing with the baddy only makes sense if to do so is the best path to overall victory.

I like to make a list of all the major deathstar HQs in play and mathhammer it up, see how much I should have to hit them with to kill them, how much I should lose in the process, and weigh the benefits.

If the big ole HQ has no synergy with the rest of the army, just slow them down and kill everybody else first.

However, if it's something like a GK librarian... bring it down. Sanctuary is a beast, especially since you use a CC focused army.

I like to focus my entire army on one point. Decide beforehand what your most important target is and smash it while distracting the less important ones. If you can hit 50% of their army with 80% of yours, it's a little like kneecapping your opponent with a baseball bat.

KingCracker wrote:Agreed, I normally choose to shoot the big scary things down. Im not a fan of using special characters so I have to be more creative then "just throw Ghazzy at it" and thats how I do it. Lootas mixed with a blob of shoota boyz or two will usually put the hurtin on whatever it is enough so that when I charge it, Ill come out the winner

Funnily enough, in every game that doesn't count for anything, I just send my AOBR warboss against those awesome characters, and at the very least they kill each other, he yet has to actually lose