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Lawsuits like this one:
http://venturebeat.com/2013/01/22/why-this-jilted-kickstarter-backer-decided-to-sue-why-he-was-right/

and


http://www.atg.wa.gov/news/news-releases/ag-makes-crowdfunded-company-pay-shady-deal

I'm sure there will be more. And backers seem to be winning...

Prodos clearly selling pledge packages outside of KS would likely give the impression Prodos saw this as a pre-order function.

If that is the case, good for Ninja Division. They should post pictures of the boxes ready to go and let folks know they will send them a soon as Prodos pays up. Place the blame where it belongs so they don't take heat that rightfully belongs to Prodos.

They did not seem to address WHAT makes up the KS version. The posts/emails from Jarek seem to clearly say the flamer/acid templates are no longer included and the quality of the card stock will now be the thinner retail stuff, and the cards will come wrapped in rubber bands. It just all comes in the bigger KS box.

I just asked some questions on the blog post. My comments are 'awaiting moderation'. It will be interesting to see if they are accepted. I was not rude, just asking for clarification as to what the KS version encompasses at this point.

Your comment is awaiting moderation.

Can you clarify what is currently meant by KS version?

Does it include the flamer/acid templates? Are the components the thicker card stock (tiles AND tokens)? Are the cards boxed up nicely? Do we get the original allocation of tiles or the lesser number you’ve recently been shipping?

Interestingly enough my comment/question is still awaiting moderation, yet one made a couple hours after mine has been approved.

Got to love that.

 angelofvengeance wrote:
I have today received the AvP boxed game... the retail version that is. For feth's sake.

Was it in the retail box or the KS box?

You're a lucky guy, one of only 23 folks shipped the wrong thing and you'll get free Predator tiles.

Woo Hoo.




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And my comment/question is STILL awaiting moderation though another one was posted.

On BGG a couple US backers said they got FEDEX notices from Ninja Division, so their sets seem to be going out.

That is fethed up.

Way too late for my credit card company to help out. I tried several months ago, basically any charge over 6 month old and you're screwed. You may be able to get a year, but you have to fight hard, and even with that this charge was too old.

A guy on BGG said he got his two boxes from Ninja Division (which seems to contradict they were only gonna send one per backer...) and mentioned he had the flamer/acid templates and larger quantity of tiles. That would indicate the allotment ND got from Prodos was the original KS version.




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 angelofvengeance wrote:

timd wrote:
Rec'd my copy (in CA) from Ninja Division today.

Have not been following the "KS vs retail version" details so don't know whether I have a KS or retail version...

T

If the box is slim (like 3 or 4 inches deep) then you've got a retail copy. Also, the tiles are thinner as well as the lack of blast templates/acid spit templates for the wargame.

But it seems the lack of templates and thinner card will be common to the 'New' KS version as well as retail versions, with just the different box making it a KS version.

 CURNOW wrote:
The reason for all the different versions is to make some scarce and ltd edition! Just see it as a extra gift to those lucky few good old prodos.

The Bespoke KS Exclusive Edition that more retail customers than backers got does indeed seem to be a limited edition. Unfortunately Prodos rewarded the wrong folks with it.

 BrookM wrote:
Maybe this is something they're tasked with putting out by FOX?

You think Fox would mandate they put it out on a closed FaceBook page?

If it is Fox mandated marketing/advertising I would suspect Fox would be less than happy if it is only posted to a closed FaceBook page...

I agree, but with a caveat. Prodos DID promise the 'Bespoke KS Exclusive' version which was supposed to have higher quality components than the retail version. If the components are NOT higher quality than the retail version then they have indeed broken another promise.

Maybe for this Friday's update, Prodos will list the contents KS backers are supposed to get so we can quit the speculation.


Maybe they'll also explain why initial KS versions (shipped to backers and retail) have different contents (assuming that is intentional) than those being sent to backers now. Surely they understand that will be a bit of a let down for folks getting the lesser content, having backed the project just as folks who were lucky enough to get the first printing AND having waited longer.

What mess. Surely Prodos was smart enough to know this would be an issue and that NOT addressing it makes it even worse.

Was that September KS edition packed wrong or was it supposed to have 112 tiles? How about the thin box? (It was my understanding all KS versions were to have the thicker box)

Again, my point is Prodos needs to tell us KS backers what we should be getting. We can guess based on what you typed, but with the feth ups Prodos has managed to pull off, it is hard to know what they intended vice what happened due to a feth up.

I recall reading a Canadian customer got his shipped directly from Prodos.

I may recall wrongly though...

 krazynadechukr wrote:
Got my replacement colonial marines!

They also threw in an extra bag of 9 aliens with no tails!

No bases either....




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you read that right.....

I'm glad they fixed your marines for you, but I have to admit, I'm a bit annoyed they are sending out replacement parts already when many of us haven't gotten a darned thing yet.

I know it is petty to feel that way too. I'm just a schmuck.

Just out of curiosity, were you a KS backer or did you get your set via retail?

We know a maximum of 230 US backers have or will be getting theirs shortly (50 at the convention, and up 180 from Ninja Division). Though Ninja Division (I think) mentioned only sending 1 copy per backer, I've seen at least two folks who claimed to have gotten 'both' their copies so I suspect the actual number is slightly less than the maximum.

What I don't know is the total number of US backers, so it is hard to tell what percentage of the total those copies equate to. No way to even estimate the % of total backers world wide having gotten their copies.

As for the switch to retail version, or even retail components in a KS box, it pisses me off. A lot. Prodos knowingly doing this (especially after having sold actual KS version via retail) is a real gak move on their part.

chaos0xomega wrote:
My flgs has AVP in stock. I was only minorly annoyed before, now Im outright pissed.

Retail version or KS version?

It would be funny if they had the KS version and you got sent the retail version.

 TheSecretSquig wrote:


If the internet rumours are true, they need retail sales to fund the delivery of KS stuff.

Those are not internet rumors, unless you count what Prodos has said as internet rumors.

 DaveC wrote:
This part worries me

We are also coming up to license renewal time; which will of course have a cost attached to it that we must generate the revenue for in order to keep this game alive into the coming years.

Fox could quite easily pull the plug before we get anything

They have zero integrity and have fethed up their use of the license. Why reward them with another shot? If Fox is monitoring any of this they would be crazy to allow renewal.


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 Alpharius wrote:

 Dark Severance wrote:

Final point, many of you have aptly observed that at the end of October, we plan to release – to retail – the Alien Queen, Predator Hellhounds and the Power Loader. We are aware that this is going back on a promise we made previously, for which we apologise. We cannot expect you to be understanding, and we do not expect that, but we just want to explain that this decision does not come easily (if it did, we would just release the whole lot); but is a measure made so that we can generate the revenue required to ship out AvP to you guys and sustain our business. We are also coming up to license renewal time; which will of course have a cost attached to it that we must generate the revenue for in order to keep this game alive into the coming years.

These were supposed to be KS campaign exclusives?

That a tough one there - how many additional sales were generated based on assumptions of scarcity/rarity/etc.?

No, the Berserker and the KS Exclusive Resin game box were the only real exclusives. The promise is us KS backers would get those items before they went to retail.

 Panic wrote:

I've had enough... feth them.

Panic...

You vitriolic hater.

I don't think the reason to use CMON was ever given. I do remember a lot of anti-CMON sentiment in the AvP KS comments. If I remember correctly folks put some of the blame for McVey's Sedition Wars disaster on CMON.

I never understood the Sedition Wars hate for CMON. To me it was always clear McVey was the problem. CMON at that point had done very well with the original Zombicide and a couple other KS projects. Delivery was not what hurt Sedition Wars...

As for Fox extending, who knows. I bet one reason Prodos censors their Facebook and forums (and why they shut down the KS) is so the visible signs of their fething up are not as prevalent to Fox. Fox won't have folks looking here for example. I would be willing to bet Prodos shows Fox a very happy sun shiny rainbow filled picture, and frankly would not be surprised if they cook the books when it comes to the numbers they show Fox. And it is such a TINY piece of Fox's business that Fox has no real reason to dig into it too much.

I guess I include skipping number owed to backers (to include the cost of shipping those orders) in order to give a better financial picture as 'cooking the books', since it paints a less than accurate picture of the financial situation.

Perhaps 'cooking the books' is the wrong term, but I seriously doubt they are showing an accurate accounting of their situation.

Someone ought to point out the relationship between Prodos and Hysterical Games to KS. Not that KS would do anything about it, but they should know that by allowing Prodos under the Hysterical Games name to do another KS after fething up AvP so badly, and lying to KS int he process to get the page taken down, that KS could be opening themselves up to some interesting issues.

shadowtyrant wrote:
I received was the original english KS version (high game box, white card boxes, additional tiles and flame template on thick cardstock). So, I am happy with my copy and hope that this means Prodos went back to the original KS version for us backers.

It means rather than pay the higher shipping to get KS backers their copies, they are sending out the ones with cheaper components. Taking any originals to conventions where they don't have to pay shipping.

At least my cynical sides tells me...

They look great!

Anyone else find it interesting that Prodos, known in this cesspool of vitriolic hate for being very heavy handed when moderating anti-Prodos sentiments, has their own forum spammed and they let it stand?

http://forum.prodosgames.com/viewforum.php?f=39&sid=78ce9857d8316f98d74f91dbb5ffb144

6 of the most recently posted to topics are spam.

 warboss wrote:
I think he's on the other Prodos director and part owner kickstarter with the fantasy WW2 hybrid setting, Panzerfauste. Since there is actual money at potential risk there, they seem more willing to at least respond until the pledges stop (even if it is apparently only to make jokes at his expense).

He posted in the Dakka topic for Panzerfauste as well. Interesting he chooses to address issues and distance himself from Prodos there and yet ignores the AvP thread.