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If a unit is not in area terrain, does it normally benefit from line of sight cover against regular blast weapons?

Yes it does, the only ones that do not grant cover from say intervening terrain are Barrage/Template IIRC

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:Yes it does, the only ones that do not grant cover from say intervening terrain are Barrage/Template IIRC

The first part of this answer is correct, you resolve cover with blast weapons from the firer of the weapon. As far a Barrage weapons they can still receive cover because you resolve the shot from the center of the blast marker to determine if they are granted cover saves.

I never got a chance to say thanks for answering this. Thanks!

Darkninja107 wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:Yes it does, the only ones that do not grant cover from say intervening terrain are Barrage/Template IIRC

The first part of this answer is correct, you resolve cover with blast weapons from the firer of the weapon. As far a Barrage weapons they can still receive cover because you resolve the shot from the center of the blast marker to determine if they are granted cover saves.

I don't have my rulebook at work, but I thought that you resolve cover safes of template weapons from the firer of the weapons (flamers and such), but blast weapons (such as rocket launchers) are resolved from the center of the blast marker.

Template Weapons never allow cover saves, if I recall correctly. Blast is from the firer, I think, and Barrage is from the center of the template.

Irdiumstern wrote:Template Weapons never allow cover saves, if I recall correctly. Blast is from the firer, I think, and Barrage is from the center of the template.

Sorry, lack of sleep. Yeah, template is no cover saves (thus the whole spray fire into cover idea)...I had thought that blast was from the center as well though, but that could very esaily be wrong.

d-usa wrote:

Darkninja107 wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:Yes it does, the only ones that do not grant cover from say intervening terrain are Barrage/Template IIRC

The first part of this answer is correct, you resolve cover with blast weapons from the firer of the weapon. As far a Barrage weapons they can still receive cover because you resolve the shot from the center of the blast marker to determine if they are granted cover saves.

I don't have my rulebook at work, but I thought that you resolve cover safes of template weapons from the firer of the weapons (flamers and such), but blast weapons (such as rocket launchers) are resolved from the center of the blast marker.

Might want to check your rulebook than as Templates IE; Flamers disallow cover saves.
Blast weapons such as MSL firing Frag, are resolved from the Firer (not the center of the blast)
Manticore and other Barrage weapons resolved from center of the blast.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
Might want to check your rulebook than as Templates IE; Flamers disallow cover saves.
Blast weapons such as MSL firing Frag, are resolved from the Firer (not the center of the blast)
Manticore and other Barrage weapons resolved from center of the blast.

Don't you only resolve the cover save from the center of the blast template if the weapon type is "barrage"?
To my understanding, even if a large blast template is used, if it is not of the type barrage you resolve the cover save from the direction of the firing unit.

Blast - resolve cover from direction of firing model
Barrage Blast - resolve cover from the centre of the blast marker

Do you always fire Ordinance Barrage weapons as Barrage? Do you ever have a choice?

This is how I kinda understand things. Please correct me if I am wrong:

If you fire a Barrage weapon, you do not reduce the scatter by your BS and you take your cover save from the center of the blast marker.

If you fire an Ordinance weapon, you do reduce the scatter by your BS and you take your cover save from the firer.

No cover save is ever granted from a Flame Template.

Ghenghis Jon wrote:Do you always fire Ordinance Barrage weapons as Barrage? Do you ever have a choice?

If you fire a Barrage weapon, you do not reduce the scatter by your BS and you take your cover save from the center of the blast marker.

Not all Ordinance Barrage weapons need to be fired as a barrage, you'll have to look at the individual weapon as there is no rule applying to all of them.

As for the second part, again you have to look at the weapon itself, many have special rules regarding scatter (always scatter, never count BS, etc.). The general rule I believe is if you have LoS to the target you count your BS and if you don't have LoS you get the full scatter. Someone please correct me if I have that wrong.

Actually you do always fire Ordnance Barrage as Barrage, If the target is in line of sight then you subtract BS, if not in line of sight you do not. Always take cover from center of marker. As per Barrage rules on page 32 of the BGB. It's like a Plasma Gun, it is a Rapid Fire weapon with the Gets Hot Additional Weapons Characteristic, you can't choose to fire it without gets hot and with only Rapid fire you have to use both rules.

@ Saiisil: From what I've read of your other posts here on Dakka, I don't think I can believe anything you say, even if it is correct.

Sailsil - NO, you do NOT have to ALWAYS fire an ordnance barrage weapon as Ordnance barrage. Page 58, Ordnance Barrage Weapons, 1st paragraph.

There are, of course, some weapons which can ONLY fire as barrage, but they are a) an exception and b) require a specific note to that effect

Secondly, people seem to get very confused over ordnance barrage, and how they can fire. Essentially:

1) Out of LOS. Must fire as Barrage, cannot subtract BS
2) In LOS. Can fire EITHER as Barrage or Direct. Either way you subtract BS.

Generally firing as Barrage in option 2) is the better option, as it is pinning and cover saves are harder to come by.

Nosferatu is correct. "Ordnance Barrage" weapons are unique in that they give the user two options when firing. These options are dependent upon whether or not the firer has LoS.

If the firer does NOT have LoS, the weapon MUST be fired "indirectly" and as barrage. In this case, you don't subtract your BS and the shot has a chance to scatter further.

If the firer DOES have LoS, the weapon can be fired as "indirect" or "direct." The differences are:

1) If firing direct, cover that is between the firer and the target gives a cover save to the target. If firing indirect, you measure cover from the center of the blast marker to the target.

2) From what I understand, firing indirect uses the rules for multiple barrage weapons (in the case where there are multiple hits, like with a manticore). Firing direct uses the rules for multiple BLASTS, which are different rules for scatter.

SylvanaSekNadin wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
Might want to check your rulebook than as Templates IE; Flamers disallow cover saves.
Blast weapons such as MSL firing Frag, are resolved from the Firer (not the center of the blast)
Manticore and other Barrage weapons resolved from center of the blast.

Don't you only resolve the cover save from the center of the blast template if the weapon type is "barrage"?
To my understanding, even if a large blast template is used, if it is not of the type barrage you resolve the cover save from the direction of the firing unit.

Yes you only resolve cover from the center if it's barrage, that's what is said in my post.

No, you only reslve from the centre if you have FIRED as barrage, not if it "is" barrage.

A manticore is always an Ordnance, Barrage weapon, but only sometimes fires as Barrage

nosferatu1001 wrote:Page 58, Ordnance Barrage Weapons, 1st paragraph.

Ok, I'll admit I missed that one, I generally just fire them Barrage because I tend to hide my Whirlwinds behind buildings and whatnot. Only reason I can think that they included that option there is to allow models that have Ordnance Barrage weapons with a Minimum range to fire within that range otherwise there is no point to allowing it.

Firing directly allows you to use your BS to mitigate scatter, and indirect fire does not, IIRC.

If the target is in LoS it doesn't matter if you fire directly or indirectly you can use your BS to mitigate scatter, BGB page 32 there are 4 bullet points that mark the difference between Blast and Barrage weapons the 4th tells you that Barrage may fire at what they can't see but if they do, they don't get to use their BS.

The other time when direct fire is really useful is if you have clear LOS to the target, but there's terrain behind the target. If you fire direct, the target never gets a cover save. If you fire indirect, depending on where the center of the blast marker ends up, the target may end up getting a cover save.

nosferatu1001 wrote:No, you only reslve from the centre if you have FIRED as barrage, not if it "is" barrage.

A manticore is always an Ordnance, Barrage weapon, but only sometimes fires as Barrage

If it's "barrage" and I'm talking about a blast ...

A manticore is not always an Ord, Barrage weapon If it has A: expended it's shot, or B: Weapon destroyed than it would only have the HB ... but than again a Vehicle can't be Ordnance just like I can't label a blast

Sailsil - no, the option is there because. unless you are fast, you cannot fire as Barrage if you have moved.

Notice how I used the word 'think' there? That's because to me that is the only reason that makes sense. Also IIRC it isn't Barrage that you can not fire if you moved but Ordnance Barrage.

We were discussing Ordnance Barrage weapons, so the context was kinda obvious.

if the firer has clear line of sight with nothing between the firing point an where the blast is there should be no cover saves allowed

Please stop with the necro.

I think "Joe the Juggalo" was going through all the old threads on blasts and thinking, "Man, so many people have it WRONG! I MUST FIX THE DAKKA!"
Hopefully he'll realise (sooner than later) that those answers were to 5e questions....

Also, he misspelled Patton in his sig, although that insight has no bearing on the matter at hand.

Yes - please check the date on a thread before replying.


Thanks!