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I've been having some really bad luck with primer. It seems that no matter what kind I use, or what technique (I have tried several) the models just seem to end up chalky or colors other than what I intend. I feel like I"m better off just painting on a base coat and then painting on top of the base coat. Is there anything wrong with this approach?

Yes, there's something wrong with that. The colors won't be uniform, they won't paint on well, and the paintjob won't be as durable.

Your spraying: are you doing it far enough away? thin coats? is it above 50 degrees F outside? What color spray are you using, and what brand? All these factors will affect the quality. More info on what you have been doing will help us help you.

It's above 50 degrees (Florida), far enough away, and I've tried GW primer, Army Builder primer, and Walmart $0.95 primer. But no matter what, it gives it a very chalky feel to the model and it seems to interfere with the paint colors. If I prime white, I have to deal with the model almost glowing. If you prime black, it makes it very dull. I almost want to take a video of how I'm doing it and ask for commentary.


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Just for reference, it looks like this guy doesn't use primer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yITRhnATlCw

So happens I've been painting ultramarines.

Of course, it's possible he's using grey. But that looks very out of the box.

Humidity also comes into consideration. It sounds like it is drying before it covers the model somewhat. Perhaps try again slightly closer to compensate for the dryness? Not too close though or it will be too thick and obscure the detail.

Yep they're primed grey.

I prime in florida as well and humidity is the enemy.

You have to wait till a nice dry day. Usually in those 2 weeks of fall and spring. I've also found that Privateer's P3 stuff is the most resistant to humidity issues.

Never ever ever ever ever skip primer. Period.

Interesting. A video would definitely give us a good idea of what you're doing. I've used P3, GW, Army Painter, and Krylon and haven't really had any problems; which is why it's interesting to hear you are having problems.

When you say it interferes with colors, do you mean that the primer shows through the layer of paint? You might need two or three coats of paint to get over the primer.

Rented Tritium wrote:I prime in florida as well and humidity is the enemy.

You have to wait till a nice dry day. Usually in those 2 weeks of fall and spring. I've also found that Privateer's P3 stuff is the most resistant to humidity issues.

Never ever ever ever ever skip primer. Period.

I have a garage I could prime in, but I'm not sure if that would effect the humidity or the final product.

In terms of length of time you spray, is it several quick blasts of less than a second, or do you go for the constantly moving 8-10 second full exposure?

You definitely need to "prime." I put that in quotes because people differ on their definitions - some use the term strictly for primers, which have different chemical formulations to increase tooth (texture that allows subsequent coats of paint to grip onto the prior layer) and adhesion, while others are simply referring to the initial (usually sprayed) coat of paint applied to the model (including regular flat/matte spray paints).

I, and many others, have found the $0.95 ColorPlace spray paints found at Walmart to be perfectly sufficient for "priming" plastic minis and have had success in applying them. In fact, I've never had a single issue in doing so, aside from completeness of coverage (which is purely a result of spray technique - I prefer to spray as much as I can with the models standing on a flat backing, then finish by hand, as opposed to mounting the models differently, then spraying from every possible angle).

As for technique, I'm in the "several seconds, moving all the while" camp. Granted, I'm usually spraying a batch of ~5 minis, so I have a bit more area to cover, but the idea is the same - holding the can roughly 6 inches away (after thoroughly shaking it and ensuring it is warm (running it under warm tap water, if necessary)), I begin spraying to the side of the group of models, moving in quick circular strokes until I've gotten decent coverage on that facing, releasing the nozzle off to the side, again. Then, I simply repeat from the other 3 facings, with a final quick blast from above completing the task.

If you move the can quickly, you shouldn't ever overload a facing with paint. If applying thin layers of flat/matte paint, the finish should also lose a degree of its initial wet gloss quickly enough that you can see which areas, if any, need another pass from the can before you've even finished spraying that facing. Perhaps the ambient humidity in Florida would slow the drying process enough to invalidate the last point, but I'm confident that you could manage with technique alone, even in those conditions (so long as you try to make the best of them, picking drier days/nights/areas to prime).

Bad cans are certainly out there, but more often than not, priming or varnishing issues can be resolved without switching products. If, rereading the language of your posts, it's the subsequent layers of paint that end up looking chalky, streaky, or muddled, it's likely an issue with your painting technique, more than your primer.

Acrylics for miniatures have a certain degree of innate translucency to them (some brands and colors, more than others). This allows for some great effects, if used properly, but requires multiple coats and/or manipulation of the underlying coats to produce smooth, solid coverage in general use. That is to say, a white undercoat resulting in glowing colors or a black undercoat muddying them is to be expected. The use of a number of lightly thinned coats of paint and/or more strongly pigmented undercoats in a mitigating tone should resolve those issues.

oadie wrote:You definitely need to "prime." I put that in quotes because people differ on their definitions - some use the term strictly for primers, which have different chemical formulations to increase tooth (texture that allows subsequent coats of paint to grip onto the prior layer) and adhesion, while others are simply referring to the initial (usually sprayed) coat of paint applied to the model (including regular flat/matte spray paints).

I, and many others, have found the $0.95 ColorPlace spray paints found at Walmart to be perfectly sufficient for "priming" plastic minis and have had success in applying them. In fact, I've never had a single issue in doing so, aside from completeness of coverage (which is purely a result of spray technique - I prefer to spray as much as I can with the models standing on a flat backing, then finish by hand, as opposed to mounting the models differently, then spraying from every possible angle).

As for technique, I'm in the "several seconds, moving all the while" camp. Granted, I'm usually spraying a batch of ~5 minis, so I have a bit more area to cover, but the idea is the same - holding the can roughly 6 inches away (after thoroughly shaking it and ensuring it is warm (running it under warm tap water, if necessary)), I begin spraying to the side of the group of models, moving in quick circular strokes until I've gotten decent coverage on that facing, releasing the nozzle off to the side, again. Then, I simply repeat from the other 3 facings, with a final quick blast from above completing the task.

If you move the can quickly, you shouldn't ever overload a facing with paint. If applying thin layers of flat/matte paint, the finish should also lose a degree of its initial wet gloss quickly enough that you can see which areas, if any, need another pass from the can before you've even finished spraying that facing. Perhaps the ambient humidity in Florida would slow the drying process enough to invalidate the last point, but I'm confident that you could manage with technique alone, even in those conditions (so long as you try to make the best of them, picking drier days/nights/areas to prime).

Bad cans are certainly out there, but more often than not, priming or varnishing issues can be resolved without switching products. If, rereading the language of your posts, it's the subsequent layers of paint that end up looking chalky, streaky, or muddled, it's likely an issue with your painting technique, more than your primer.

Acrylics for miniatures have a certain degree of innate translucency to them (some brands and colors, more than others). This allows for some great effects, if used properly, but requires multiple coats and/or manipulation of the underlying coats to produce smooth, solid coverage in general use. That is to say, a white undercoat resulting in glowing colors or a black undercoat muddying them is to be expected. The use of a number of lightly thinned coats of paint and/or more strongly pigmented undercoats in a mitigating tone should resolve those issues.

That's a pretty great write-up. I'm encouraged to try it again. I talked to a friend at the office and we're going to try and film a video of our attempt and see what happens because of it.

Have you considered brush on priming? With practice you can prime a single mini in the same time as spray paint but without the risk of botching it due to atmosphere or a crap can of spray. I highly recommend the Vallejo line of colored polyurethane base surface primers. If you invest in an airbrush as well then this is the way to go. I have brushed it on and it goes on smooth as butter and dries perfect every time.an added plus is it comes many colors bu I usually stick with black and grey.

Citadel foundation paints can cover just as evenly(albeit in different way) and well as most primers. You just have to be patient because it does take some time to get down, but no longer than it takes to learn how to prime. I rarely use primer and my base coats come out just as good as the next, but most people do prefer primer because it is loads faster and you can paint whole batches at once(Fantasy anyone?). I use Chaos Black primer on my Lizardmen.

It is never ok to not prime. There is no discussion. It isn't the theory of priming, it is the fact of priming. If it was optional, it wouldn't exist.

I've been "priming" lately with mixed Vallejo Dark Green and Imperial Blue, mixed in with Vallejo Satin Varnish.

The varnish mixed in gives it some durability, while I can mix my own color and spray over top of it.

It is never ok to not prime. There is no discussion. It isn't the theory of priming, it is the fact of priming. If it was optional, it wouldn't exist.

Have any real proof to back up this statement?

BrotherAleric wrote:

It is never ok to not prime. There is no discussion. It isn't the theory of priming, it is the fact of priming. If it was optional, it wouldn't exist.

Have any real proof to back up this statement?

Well yea, unless your brushing on chaos black, you simply cannot just start brushing on another color without getting HORRIBLE results.

BrotherAleric wrote:

It is never ok to not prime. There is no discussion. It isn't the theory of priming, it is the fact of priming. If it was optional, it wouldn't exist.

Have any real proof to back up this statement?

Why do cars have primer? If it was an optional step, clearly companies wouldn't use it on cheaper models to save money. Primer exists SOLELY to prepare a surface to accept the adhesion of paint.

Without priming, you can simply rub paint right off a model. Ask any professional model painter if they skip priming. Every few months this topic comes up with some lazy people spouting about how fine their models are without it.

Quit giving newer people bad advice. It is unfair to them as they don't yet know any better.

question... are there best before date on the primer by itself?? cause i have 2 primer can that been waiting for a while, and when i spray them, the paint looks really thin.. should i just get new primer or shake even more the can.. ??

Like others have said, it's important to prime, but you don't have to prime with an actual primer (like automotive primer or something).

Gesso is another good option, especially if you're having trouble with sprays and don't want to wait for the weather to improve.

I basically use gesso for almost everything I need to prime now. There's an excellent Dakka article on it here.


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Aerethan wrote:

BrotherAleric wrote:

It is never ok to not prime. There is no discussion. It isn't the theory of priming, it is the fact of priming. If it was optional, it wouldn't exist.

Have any real proof to back up this statement?

Why do cars have primer? If it was an optional step, clearly companies wouldn't use it on cheaper models to save money. Primer exists SOLELY to prepare a surface to accept the adhesion of paint.

Without priming, you can simply rub paint right off a model. Ask any professional model painter if they skip priming. Every few months this topic comes up with some lazy people spouting about how fine their models are without it.

Automative primer on cars is a little bit different, because the paint needs to adhere to very large, very smooth surfaces. In miniatures, you're dealing with space that is a lot more porous and doesn't have a bunch of large smooth surfaces. Using a coat of something, whether it's an actual primer, black paint, or gesso is definitely a good idea with miniatures, but there is no reason to use an actual primer during the priming step. A lot of the sprays marketed as "primer" for miniatures are basically just spray paint anyway, and in some cases, an automotive grade primer could actually damage your model.

I doubt there are any professional model painters who skip the priming step, but I know there are pro painters who don't use actual "primers."

heavybolter wrote:Have you considered brush on priming? With practice you can prime a single mini in the same time as spray paint but without the risk of botching it due to atmosphere or a crap can of spray. I highly recommend the Vallejo line of colored polyurethane base surface primers. If you invest in an airbrush as well then this is the way to go. I have brushed it on and it goes on smooth as butter and dries perfect every time.an added plus is it comes many colors but I usually stick with black and grey.

This. A thousand times this. I live practically on the coast in sunny (hahaha) Britain and I can count the days we've had less than 60% humidity on one hand. Spray primers, unless done in the middle of a heatwave or some such strange event, end up with enormous problems every time I've done them.

Example:-


After using straight Chaos Black from the pot for a while, I got a bottle of the Vallejo Poly Primer in Black just to see if I could solve this problem and actually prime when I'm ready to paint, rather than waiting half a year or more to get around to it. It works really well, it's not quite as durable as some of the automotive primers but it leaves details amazingly crisp and it touches up fine too. You also only need to use quite a small amount. It's great for airbrushes but I brush it on and it works fine for me.

My Test Model:-


Just don't thin it, it's plenty thin already, and shrinks as it dries so it can almost "shrinkwrap" the model. If you thin it, it loses its cohesion. They come in white, black, grey and a variety of colours. No blues though, I'm afraid, you'd probably be best off with grey.

Well, gesso IS primer. Usually it's used to prime canvas for painting, usually with acrylics and/or oil paints. Never tried it with miniatures but it does provide tooth for paint to stick on.