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Not fully Tzeentch but all neutral things must be Tzeentch.

The Scourged

Deceiver-Lord Caledon 180
Chaos Sorcerer
Mark of Tzeentch
Terminator Armour
Bolt of Change
Doombolt

The Lords of Night 180
3 Chaos Terminator Champions
Mark of Tzeentch

The Thousand Sons 140
5 Thousand Sons
Aspiring Sorcerer with Bolt of Change

The Berserkers 225
10 Khorne Berserkers
Skull Champions

The Deceivers 245
10 Chaos Space Marines
Aspiring Champion
Power Fist
Mark of Tzeentch
Flamer
Meltagun

Chaos Vindicator 140
Havoc Launcher

The Mutants 225
3 Obliterators

The Destructor 165
Chaos Predator
Twin-Linked Lascannon
Sponson-Mounted Lascannon

The Sorcerer joins the Chaos Termies and the Obliterators/Pred act as Tank Hunters. Vindicator goes BOOM! Marines act as a versatile response unit. Sons kill Marines and Berserkers kill hordes. Termies + Sorcerer take on their brethren in the elite section.


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HELLO!


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Anybody out there?!

One thing that has definately struck me about this list is that it is very slow and does not contain any transport armour to protect your troops. The standard CSM, thye beserkers and the thoushand sons all need Rhinos, if you want something to act as a response unit, you need something that can respond quickly. Where you get the points for this is up to you.

On a side note, I'm pretty certain that making posts that automatically append don't bump your post up, but I'm not sure.

Hope this helps!

YEah they don't


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Well the sons go uber firebase and the berserkers kind of just advance and when the enemy gets near assault. But what is good to kill. I was thinking of stopping the Havoc Launcher on the Vindiand going something cheaper. I forgot to write in the Reaper autoannon on the Termies so they have cleared me 25. THen I get a twinlinked Bolter on the Vindi and I have 35 points! ONE RHINO FOR DA MARINES!


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Not fully Tzeentch but all neutral things must be Tzeentch.

The Scourged

Deceiver-Lord Caledon 180
Chaos Sorcerer
Mark of Tzeentch
Terminator Armour
Bolt of Change
Doombolt

The Lords of Night 155
3 Chaos Terminator Champions
Mark of Tzeentch

The Thousand Sons 140
5 Thousand Sons
Aspiring Sorcerer with Bolt of Change

The Berserkers 225
10 Khorne Berserkers
Skull Champions

The Deceivers 245
10 Chaos Space Marines
Aspiring Champion
Power Fist
Mark of Tzeentch
Flamer
Meltagun

The Rampage 35
Chaos Rhino

Chaos Vindicator 130
Pintle Mounted Twin-linked Bolter

The Mutants 225
3 Obliterators

The Destructor 165
Chaos Predator
Twin-Linked Lascannon
Sponson-Mounted Lascannon

I like the theme of the list, and the character you've put in it. My issues however, lie in accord with what has been said above- The bezerkers and the CSM squad need transports to be effective. My feel would be to drop the lascannon turret from the pred, and then do something more deliberate with the terminators. Presently, they are not doing anything with any great intent. Yes, they have an extra attack each by virtue of being champs, but no real way of getting an edge in CC against other elites. A mark of slaanesh is stronger if you want it, but its less fluffy with the 1k sons theme. MoT is fine, but then spend the rest of the points tooling them for assault, such as with lightning claws and powerfists/chainfists. You could even consider giving them some combimeltas/flamers so that if they DS (and with no LR why wouldn't they?) they can at least get a turn of shooting before they got shot in return.

Those points aside, its a list that has a lot of variety, which will give you plenty of interest while playing, and just needs a few tweaks to get the most out of it.

Hope this has helped.

The Scourged

Deceiver-Lord Caledon 180
Chaos Sorcerer
Mark of Tzeentch
Terminator Armour
Bolt of Change
Doombolt

The Lords of Night 155
3 Chaos Terminator Champions
Mark of Tzeentch

The Thousand Sons 140
5 Thousand Sons
Aspiring Sorcerer with Bolt of Change

The Berserkers 225
10 Khorne Berserkers
Skull Champions

The Warpstorm 35
Chaos Rhino

The Deceivers 245
10 Chaos Space Marines
Aspiring Champion
Power Fist
Mark of Tzeentch
Flamer
Meltagun

The Rampage 35
Chaos Rhino

Chaos Vindicator 130
Pintle Mounted Twin-linked Bolter

The Mutants 225
3 Obliterators

The Destructor 130
Chaos Predator
Sponson-Mounted Lascannon


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HELLO!?

Your 3-man terminator squad seem to have no particular role. You say you want them as tank hunters but neglect to give them cheap combi-melta/plas or chainfists? The champion upgrade is useless if they can still get shot shown just as easily by bolters as an unmarked 3-man squad after DS. Drop the Champ upgrade and give them 3-Combi meltas and one a CF which will much more threatening.

All your infantry must have transport, especially your Berserkers. They will get shot down before they walk to the enemy.

I don't like the mixing of special weapons in your CSM squad. Sure you get versatility but why not go 2 Melta and then add a Combi-flmaer onto your Rhino/Champ.

I would prefer Daemonic Possession on your Vindicator over a Havoc/TLB to allow it to continue to move and shoot. Just keep in mind that if I was playing against this list, I would throw all long range fire at the Vindy first turn as there is very little target saturation. Blow off your cannon or immobilize it and you have one useless tin can with a bolter that can't move.

The Sorcerer is not an MC so he can't cast 2 PSA per turn, waste of points.

Sorcerer, pretty expensive but Bolt and Doombolt are both nice powers. Probably not worth it since he can be insta killed, and offers no anti-psyker power. Daemon Prince is more survivable, and will do more damage.

3 Terminator champs, with MoT. Well this unit is just 155 points of waste. Only reason to take a squad of 3 Terminators in my eyes it for deep striking 3 combi-meltas and blowing something up. This squad with their bolters and power weapons, are going to die without killing anything in most games.

Squad of 5 1K sons seems pointless, no transport, Bolt is to expensive (although I suppose you need it for anti-tank) Zerkers don't fit the theme, also no power fist. You'll probably find 8 is a better squad size. CSM squad is ok, but very expensive you'll probably find its not point effective.

Chaos Heavys need to be taken in pairs or trios really. I suppose the versatility could be useful, but for me having 2 Vindicators or 2/3 Predators or just Oblits as heavy works better than mixing.

Its not the worst list ever, and to be honest, whats holding it back is the Tzeentch theme, your wasting points on MOT for CSMs, an expensive Chaos Sorcerer a pointless Terminator and 1K sons squad. If you want a proper Tzeentch army, I think you should try and build that. Not some kind of hybrid Tzeentch army. It seems you've added some stuff just so you can call it a Tzeentch army...

If I were to build a pure 1500 Tzeentch list I would go:

DP Wings MoT Warptime 175

8 TS + Sorc/Wind/MB + Rhino 314
10 CSM Champ PF Combi-Flamer 2Melta MoT Rhino 295
10 CSM Champ PF 2Melta MoT Rhino 285

AutoLas Predator 130
2 Obliterators 150
2 Obliterators 150

1499

DP won't get instagibbed by a Las or PF and can put on some hurt if used properly. Much more hardy and mobile than the Termy Sorc.
4 tanks for saturation. 4 Meltas for up close anti-tank. Combi-Flamer for a one off anti-horde. Pred and Oblits for long-range AT. Sons can drive by and hurt with Wind, while CSM provide some much needed CC support (I refuse to mix Khorne and Tzeentch in fluff).
Sons are way too costly to take more than one squad, and if you want to stay in with the sacred squad numbers (9) you're not gonna have many models on the field at all.

I kanda like csm Termies though


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Not to mention Berserkers!

Artanis wrote:If I were to build a pure 1500 Tzeentch list I would go:

DP Wings MoT Warptime 175

8 TS + Sorc/Wind/MB + Rhino 314
10 CSM Champ PF Combi-Flamer 2Melta MoT Rhino 295
10 CSM Champ PF 2Melta MoT Rhino 285

AutoLas Predator 130
2 Obliterators 150
2 Obliterators 150

1499

DP won't get instagibbed by a Las or PF and can put on some hurt if used properly. Much more hardy and mobile than the Termy Sorc.
4 tanks for saturation. 4 Meltas for up close anti-tank. Combi-Flamer for a one off anti-horde. Pred and Oblits for long-range AT. Sons can drive by and hurt with Wind, while CSM provide some much needed CC support (I refuse to mix Khorne and Tzeentch in fluff).
Sons are way too costly to take more than one squad, and if you want to stay in with the sacred squad numbers (9) you're not gonna have many models on the field at all.

Im with you... I dont like mixing...

Also if you like termis and berzerkers why not flip and just do a Khorne army?

A DP isn't as good in many other ways though than a terminator sorceror... Just saying...

Better than the Chaos Sorcerer in that list.
Term Lord sorcerers, aren't really worth anything. Why do they need terminator armour? If your planning on getting him into combats where term armour will help, a Daemon Prince is better. Can't hide in a squad as well as a power armour one.

Deamon Princes are still best Chaos HQ.

Pluxtheduck wrote:A DP isn't as good in many other ways though than a terminator sorceror... Just saying...

Hey Plux, I'm interested to know what uses you have found for the Term Sorc over a DP. You have an enormous army covering all the gods and have many wins under your belt so your experience is worth a lot.

As far as I see it, Termi Lords/Sorcs are slow. They cannot take the mobility upgrades (Wings/Jumppack/Bike) that the Power Armour equivalents can. This forces them to either walk, DS or demands travel in a LR. Further LR's have no firing points to shoot spells on the move.

They do not have EW.
They cannot do sweeping advances.
If they join a Termi squad they lose Fearless and can get swept off the board (IoCG will help this though).
Their statline is far inferior to a Daemon Prince for the same cost.
They are not MC, so cannot cast 2 different PSA spells, or gain an extra +D6 for armor pen.
They lose Frag/Krak, Ubergrit when taking TDA.
They don't contribute to target saturation in a mech/MC heavy list.
They don't inspire fear to be fire magnets which can take shots off your rhinos.

I will point out that a Sorc with MoT can in fact use two powers a turn, they just can't be both shooting powers.

Page 88 CSM Codex, First paragraph.

Really, to me, the Sorc in Terminator armor gets double use from his MoT which isn't a bad deal. Give him a Familure and he gets 3 powers. The Force weapon (pg 50 BRB) is good to have and having 2+ armor and 4+ invuln save crushes anything the DP gets.

As for sweeping advances, I believe they have corrected that by saying all terminator armor is 'relentless', which follows normal assault rules. Worse comes to worse, they didn't fix it or you still play that way and they don't run after the unit. Just means you can charge them next turn.

Frag/Krak... well, don't assault into terrain or just suck up Init 1. Krak sucks, even if it is free. Melta bomb or nothing.

Target Saturation... BoC is a Str 8 shot, right? That usally means they also draw fire, but your right... why wouldn't they be in a LR or DSing in.

Don't get me wrong, pound for pound I would take a DP over a sorc. But you are selling the Sorc alittle short.

Artanis wrote:

Pluxtheduck wrote:A DP isn't as good in many other ways though than a terminator sorceror... Just saying...

Hey Plux, I'm interested to know what uses you have found for the Term Sorc over a DP. You have an enormous army covering all the gods and have many wins under your belt so your experience is worth a lot.

As far as I see it, Termi Lords/Sorcs are slow. They cannot take the mobility upgrades (Wings/Jumppack/Bike) that the Power Armour equivalents can. This forces them to either walk, DS or demands travel in a LR. Further LR's have no firing points to shoot spells on the move.

They do not have EW.
They cannot do sweeping advances.
If they join a Termi squad they lose Fearless and can get swept off the board (IoCG will help this though).
Their statline is far inferior to a Daemon Prince for the same cost.
They are not MC, so cannot cast 2 different PSA spells, or gain an extra +D6 for armor pen.
They lose Frag/Krak, Ubergrit when taking TDA.
They don't contribute to target saturation in a mech/MC heavy list.
They don't inspire fear to be fire magnets which can take shots off your rhinos.

These are all good points, however.

In most matches, DPs are dead before they make a real aggressive difference to an army, this, in my view makes them a waste of points. I feel a sorc is more likely to make his points back when with a termie bodyguard (with IoT) when DS.
I feel that the DP will also come up against far more powerful units in combat without support then a sorc as people are scared of them = Again a waste of points
DPs aren't that strong, compared to other MCs. I have felt the pain of this many a time, not with a sorceror though
The Termie bodyguard can adapt to threats better then a DP
Forceweapons = I think this doesn't need explaining...

Therefore, though I think DPs are good in Tzeentch, Sorcerors give you a stronger unit for your points, not just a big shield...

I had a game the other day with my Tzeentch army... Crushing victory! Sorceror+bodygurad made 3 kill points (playing against DE)

I was very pleased...


I hope this gives you a reason to believe me...

I own a Khornate daemon army and I wanted a tzeentch marinearmy to use in a battle where marines have been sucked into the warp for a gladiator fight against Khorne Daemns. So that also means no PRINCE! The berserkers add a CC edge.

Sold the Daemon Army and decided with Iron Warriors instead. What do you guys think of this:

The Forge-Lord 165
Chaos Lord
In-built Void Shield (counts as a mark of Tzeentch)
Terminator Armour
Pair of Lightning Claws

The Forge-Masters 215
4 Chaos Terminator Champions
Pair of Lightning Claws
Enhanced Energy Shields (Mark of Tzeentch)
Power Fist

These Punks DS kill.

The Doom of Gryphonne 100
Chaos Dreadnought
Additional CC weapon

CHARGE!

The Smith-Lords
5 Chaos Space Marines 100
Missile Launcher
Aspiring Champion

The Forged Titan 35
Chaos Rhino

Sit in rhino ML tanks or hordes.

The Fists of Iron
5 Chaos Space Marines 100
Missile Launcher
Aspiring Champion

The Throne of Steel 35
Chaos Rhino

Sit in rhino ML tanks or hordes.

The Berserk 208
8 Khorne Berserkers
Skull Champion
Power Fist

The Roaring Doom 35
Chaos Rhino

The Crazed 208
8 Khorne Berserkers
Skull Champion
Power Fist

The Storm of Hatred 35
Rhino

YAAAAH!

The Sons of Magnus 177
5 Thousand Sons
Aspiring Sorcerer
Bolt of Change

The Warped 35
Rhino

Drive to Short Range Fire-Fight

The Engine of Annihilation150
Chaos Defiler
+2 Dreadnought CC Weapons

YAAAAGH!

Total: 1498