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Dakka,
I ran into a bit of a problem in my last game. I was playing a game against a buddy of mine who uses Grey Knights. There is a bit of a rivalry between his army and mine as he is GK and I play CSM. This past game he threw something new at me instead of the usual Space Marine vs. Space Marine shenanigans we end up with that I usually come out of on top. Here's the rundown:

Map was Urban with ruins and a few buildings still standing. I had a thousand sons squad fighting their way through the ruins to break through a squad of his knights in the middle and take his objective, while another squad of 10 chaos marines dug in on the outside with a missile launcher to hold my objective. He had two Land Raiders lurking around in the streets, one on the far side of the map away from my objective, the other moving strait for my objective. The missile launcher couldn't hit the Land Raider no matter how many times I shot (but that's just the fault of my bad rolls for that particular shot for whatever reason or another). I didn't care much for it at the time, as I had two oblits, a terminator squad with combi-melta and a chain fist, and a squad of chosen with nothing but metla coming in from reserves just as the land raider started getting too close. So, the oblits landed 4inches away from the Land Radier, used multi-melta of course, (my horrible rolling only resulted in an immobilized and crew stunned effect). Then the chosen landed right behind it with their meltas (Drop pod, boo me later) resulting in more shaken (hate my dice). And the Termis with more of the same. This would have been a terrific ambush if it wasn't for the fact that my dice hated me!

That wasn't the issue I wish to discuss. The real issue was what came out of that land raider and killed every unit in that area. He loaded it with an Inquisitor escorted by 7 death cult assassins and 3 crusaders! With I6 they killed off my terminators before they could react and shrugged off all the heavy fire from my Oblits thanks to crusaders with 3+ invul. The second LR dropped of a similar squad into the ruins my thousand sons and choas lord had just claimed from his GK squad and killed off that unit in one horrible assault phase as well. How in the world does anything stand up to that? 3+ invul guarding the advance if they have to foot slog and I6 with power weapons and good WS in assault. I'm thinking our back and forth rivalry may be at an end unless I can find a way to counter this.


Well Dakka, how would you counter this attack?

Don't hold the oblits in reserve...have them put down long range fire and immobilize the LR as far out as possible. Sacrificing the chosen/termicides to immobilize both LRs and subsequently die to assaults is acceptable when your oblits pie plate them to death (typically with the assistance of a lash prince/sorc) because that 3++ doesn't do much when you put 10+ wounds on the squad from the oblits alone and anything else you have in the backfield with dakka. Another thing to remember is that the DC can't do much to vehicles. A dread or defiler can lock in with them and hold them in place while the rest of your squads move around into more favorable positions.

Remember that the DCs only have a 5++ so they die very quickly when the crusaders can't soak up all of the hits.

What did you fire at the unit with your oblits? With 7/11 DCA's I'd say you'd be able to put a number of wounds on him with your twinlinked flamer that he would be forced to take on them, and 5++ ain't too crash hot

As others said, lash takes them out of the game easy.

Without lash, try khorne in terrain. If you drop the land raider he loses grenades, and with khornes bonus attacks swinging first you can put a big dent in them.

This seems to be more of a landraider problem than a deathcult problem to be honest.

I typically use the horribly rated banishers and give them an evicerator to give the DCA+crusaders some threat to vehicles as well

make sure you were doing wound allocation right too

in that unit (7+3 models) if you did 4 wounds to the unit, one of the wounds would have to go on assassins (which have a 5+ instead of a 3+

also they don't have grenades, so if you can get that land raider out of business you can get the first round of attacks off if they assault into cover.

GreyChaos wrote:Don't hold the oblits in reserve...have them put down long range fire and immobilize the LR as far out as possible. Sacrificing the chosen/termicides to immobilize both LRs and subsequently die to assaults is acceptable when your oblits pie plate them to death (typically with the assistance of a lash prince/sorc) because that 3++ doesn't do much when you put 10+ wounds on the squad from the oblits alone and anything else you have in the backfield with dakka. Another thing to remember is that the DC can't do much to vehicles. A dread or defiler can lock in with them and hold them in place while the rest of your squads move around into more favorable positions.

Remember that the DCs only have a 5++ so they die very quickly when the crusaders can't soak up all of the hits.

I rather like that Dread idea, and I suppose my roster was certaintly lacking in armor that day. As far as pumping them full of more wounds, I suppose my noise marines could do this as well with their heavy three option, right? Thank you. That has given me some usefull ideas.

Jihallah wrote:What did you fire at the unit with your oblits? With 7/11 DCA's I'd say you'd be able to put a number of wounds on him with your twinlinked flamer that he would be forced to take on them, and 5++ ain't too crash hot

It was twin linked flamer, and he managed to make every single save, even the 5+ invuls on the couple of DC that fell under the templates. So I don't know that template produces enough wounds, as I said to grey chaos, perhaps the high rate of fire from noise marines will do that better.

DevianID wrote:As others said, lash takes them out of the game easy.

Without lash, try khorne in terrain. If you drop the land raider he loses grenades, and with khornes bonus attacks swinging first you can put a big dent in them.

This seems to be more of a landraider problem than a deathcult problem to be honest.

The Land Raider wouldn't have been so much of an issue if I wasn't rolling all 1 and 2 for vehicle damage. That whole roster was nothing but anti-armor to force him to fight me foot soldier vs foot soldier, battles I usually excell at if I can force him onto his feet.

Bad Wolf wrote:

Jihallah wrote:What did you fire at the unit with your oblits? With 7/11 DCA's I'd say you'd be able to put a number of wounds on him with your twinlinked flamer that he would be forced to take on them, and 5++ ain't too crash hot

It was twin linked flamer, and he managed to make every single save, even the 5+ invuls on the couple of DC that fell under the templates. So I don't know that template produces enough wounds, as I said to grey chaos, perhaps the high rate of fire from noise marines will do that better.

Is he allocating the wounds properly? You don't get hits/have to make saves for models under the template, you count how many hits you get then roll to wound, then they have to allocate them. Just making sure your doin' it right...

sudojoe wrote:I typically use the horribly rated banishers and give them an evicerator to give the DCA+crusaders some threat to vehicles as well

Yeah, I don't get why I never see them in lists. I think one belongs in every Inquisition CC unit. For good measure I put in a Mystic too if I'm also running Termies. Adds some nice utility function and ensures they can get some back-up.

To the OP, I think you need to roll better when tackling their Land Raider They're pretty weak against shooting. If you can get rid of that LR, some rapid fire and artillery should get the job done very quickly. But you've really got to flood the unit with hits so the wounds hit the much more fragile DCAs.

DevianID wrote:As others said, lash takes them out of the game easy.

Without lash, try khorne in terrain. If you drop the land raider he loses grenades, and with khornes bonus attacks swinging first you can put a big dent in them.

This seems to be more of a landraider problem than a deathcult problem to be honest.

this...

DCA aren't all that scarey if you play with terrain on the table...