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All right at first this thread was created to make a one time, competitive army, but now its grown into a all around use any ware list. that i am trying to devolpe
with help from the lovely members of dakadaka and the awesome powers of math

, i will be able to test the list we create against, orks, Eldar, space marines, tau, grey knights, and Tyranids
i will post the results of each battle using the list here, when they occur, so visit back to see if are math pays off.


The List

Here it is the famous list
rules of the list
1. the list is up for criticism
2. the list is up for revision at any time
3. the list can be added to taken away from or all around
changed,
4.any person can make suggestions to the list
under the condition that they can explain using math, that the change would benefit the list
including all variable's that might come into play for the situation being described.
(more rules to come when a situation arises for a new rule)

HQ
Nemesor zahndrekh (185 + 80(catacomb command barge or cc) = 260 P)
OK not much to say here his ability to give ally units universal rules in the time of need is critical, being able to give
Counter attack or furious charge, to a unit of immortals. Just thinking about this gives me the willies,
he can also take away those annoying special rules your opponents units have,

The Math
lets look at his stats

WS:4 BS:4 S:5 T:5 W:3 I:2 A:3 LD:10 S: 2+
not a bad stat line but not the best on his own he is not really a reliable, character to take
with only 3 attacks and a bs of 4 he needs 3 plus to hit and the chances of that happening are 29.63 %
(rolling 3 dice each with 6 sides the chances that all 3 dice will roll a 3+ or higher is 29.63 %)
but if we slap him into a cc barge then we get the following stat line

BS:4 armour of 11 on all facings
with quantum shielding that's 13 on front and side facings until penetrated ( i have a 5TH edition necron codex and rule book in front of me to verify this)

special rules
sweeping attack this is a very nice assault orientated ability allowing you to attack in the movement phase
for 3 attacks any unit moved over. you hit on a 3+ if you moved at combat speed if not its 4+
the strength of the hits are equal to the embarked character and benefits from his close combat weapon
down side, each attack has to be rolled for separately

The Math
the chances of rolling 3+ on 1 dice is 66.67%
(1 dice 6 facings probability of a 3 is 66.67%)

the chances of rolling 4+ on 1 dice is exactly 50%
(1 dice 6 facings probability of a 4 is 50%)

speaking with those odds i believe this is a viable option for an hq
as well as the ability to ignore crew shaken or crew stunned results at the
cost of 1 wound, that's 2 results ignored, and 2 more turns of havoc
now comes the closing conclusion to taking this, since the sweeping advance hits are done in
the movement phase, you can still disembark, shoot then assult for a total of 10 attacks agaisnt any 1 said unit from
1 character, the math doesn't lie this is viable

Vargard Obyron (160 P)
this monster pretty much speaks for him self, but for those who aren't familiar we will make the break down

his stat line is

WS6 BS4 S5 T5 W 3 I2 A3 LD 10 S 2+

this monster hits on 3+ from a distance once again the chances of that happing with 3 attacks is 29.63%
(as explained in above hq)
is not that great but this isn't the reason we are taking him,
cleaving counter blow states that for every to hit roll that your opponent misses adds 1 attack to his attacks for a total of 10 attacks just from him

so the odds that your opponent has an average of a 3+ to hit and an average of 10 attacks
the chances that he will fail is 8.36 percent witch can translate into a total of 3 misses on average
( that's the chances he will roll 2 or less)

in close combat he needs 3+ to hit and can have a total of 10 attacks
the break down is ( 3 attacks + 6 attacks from enemy misses +1 from assaulting first)
for a total percent to hit at a whooping 55.93%
on average that's at least 5 hits per turn just from him
not to mention he has power weapon the war scythe witch states it adds 2+ to strength (does that apply to obyron? im not sure the wording seems to say it does but im not sure if its already included in obyron's stats seeing as you cant change what weapons he has currently researching)
being able to lay down 5 possible wounds with out armour saves is devastating to any unit,
he also has ghost mantle witch allows him to deep strike even if he's in combat. witch can be handy
and doesn't scatter if he's within six inches of Nemesor zahndrekh, and with that deadly accuracy this makes him
very viable.

Necron Overlord(90 + 20 (pheron) + 10 (war scythe) + 30(res orb)

all right here is the low down on the overlord

WS 4 BS 4 S 5 +2(war scythe) = 7 T 5 W 3 I 2 LD 10 S 3+

this guy is awesome like the standard hqs he has 3 attacks and hits on 3+
he gets 2 plus to strength for having the war scythe, and you get to roll
2 dice for penetrating hits,
on top of that we give this gent a res orb and those pesky 5+ reanimation protocols rolls get drop to a 4+
which can save up to 50% more of your guys.
on his own he isn't worth the points but its when you stick him with a large unit, that he becomes more than worth it

Troops

20 warriors (260 P)
so these guys are the meat and potatoes of any army with a
BS of 4 that means 3+ to hit and because they have gauss weapons its automatic glance on a 6
witch makes these guys an option for taking town vehicles. and 4+ plus save plus the 5+ for reanimation protocols
means these guys have staying power, lets brake down the math

lets say we get ten wounds the possibility to roll 4+ to save them is 62.33 %
for a grand total of an average of 5 saves, now we have only 5 dead so lets crunch those
numbers the possibility of saving every last necron is 0.41%
for an average of 2 (actually its 2.57 but we cant round up lol) so that's 3 that remain dead for an
total of 7 saves that's a nice high number of 70% saves witch by a math standpoint that's more than worth the risk

9 immortals (153 + 100 (night scythe)P)

all right not much to say here there modified stats list makes them a hard hitter
with a 3+ save and a bs of 4 thats a 3+ to hit, if we give these guys Tesla carbines
they get an extra 2 hits on ever roll of 6 on there to hit rolls so if we break down that math again

we have 9 immortals with 1 attack each = 9 attacks
so the percent we would make all 9 hits is 2.60% witch isn't allot
but that does average out to an average of 6 hits

now what are the chances that we are going to roll 6's on these 6 hits ?
we have a 40.19% chance to roll one 6
and 20.09% for two 6's
and 5.36% for three 6's
and 0.80% for five 6's
and 0.06% for six 6's

as you can see the numbers aren't too great for rolling 6's but the chance is there and there's the possibly that's all i need
to take Tesla carbines, and even if we hit 1 out of the 6 that turns are 6 hits into 8

to make matters worse we are going to throw them all in a night scythe. they can move 36 inches flat out,
and 24 for cruising speed, making this a great vehicle to get in close and fast
to put those immortals to work,

9 immortals (153 +100(night scythe)P)
these are the same as above immortals

Quick Attack

10 canoptek scarabs (150 P)
i feel that no necron army should be without at least 1 group of scarabs there very use full for screening
and all around cannon fodder, and there 3 attacks, 3 wounds make them a great points filler,

on top of that they have entropic touch witch makes them perfect for hunting down vehicles, if the opponent
doesn't bring vehicles there good for tying up units, that gives us valuable time to get in that sweet spot so to speak

(number crunching on these guys to come later)

tactics

lets talk tactics

ok first things first
were sticking obyron with a unit of immortals
and the necron overlord with the warriors.
that gives the warriors a 4+ reanimation protocols
and from are above math that adds the possibility to save 2 more units

continuing on i think the best way to set this up for deployment would be the
scarabs out front, and the 3 2 night scythes and the cc barge right behind and the unit
of warriors, coming in behind,

first move progress the wall of scarabs with the vehicles right behind blasting anything within range of the weapons
and move and run the warriors to keep up,

continuing on until im in range to assault with scarabs to tie up the first available vehicle or unit,
allowing the 2 scythes to move flat out get in position and unload all the units to move shoot and assault

right behind them is the warriors.

essentially creating a sandwich between the warriors and scarabs, and the immortals leaving the cc barge to move freely dishing out
sweep attack hits,

Dispersion shields don't grant a 3+ invulnerable save, they grant a 4+ invulnerable save. I think that you really need Royal Courts to be effective with a Necron army. Further, you might want to reread the rules for Night Scythes-- if they get destroyed with guys inside, your guys don't in fact end up getting close in...

Correct, my bad it is a 4+ invu,
however i am fully aware of the night scythes rules. they enter reserve if the transport is destroyed. either way its a good way of thinning out the herd so to speak and even if only one unit manages to disembark from the transport. then that single unit can then do some damage before being destroyed. leaving the others in reserve to come back at a distance picking off the stragglers

Did you say you've actually used this list before?
If so, care to give us a run down of what typically happens?
(you've given us an idea of what you WANT to happen, but how has it worked out in practice thus far?)

The problem you have is this list cannot deal with mech so well. The Night Scythes are the only ranged shooting and they at best are S6 tesla cannons. The only other anti tank is in the form of combat. If your buddies are running mech then I can see why you struggle.

reply, no i have not gave this list a run down but when i do i will post the results, and ill have no problem dealing with mech, as the ccbarge strikes agaisnt rear armour, and uses what the character has as stats, so said character has war scythe( with war scythe you roll 2 d6 to penetrate) and i get three chances with the cc barges sweep attack, also the lych guard have obyron who also has a power scythe. i have used power scythes to munch mech before without issues. the only real problem i have is building a well rounded list that has staying power

i used to run the storm-lord to keep it night and run wraiths scarabs and a lychgaurd, works great till i mess a roll up and day arrives, lol

If you want staying power, you may need to change tactics. This doesn't quite seem like the "hammer-anvil" you're asking for.
Have you considered a Warrior Phalanx? (brick (or two!) of 20 Warriors lead by a relentless Phaeron carrying a ResOrb (and MS Scarabs!), with a Ghost Ark (or two!) floating along behind them). As far as "lastability", there's little else in the codex that will survive longer than that, as well as being able to inflict decent damage.

L3GI0N wrote:reply, no i have not gave this list a run down but when i do i will post the results, and ill have no problem dealing with mech, as the ccbarge strikes agaisnt rear armour, and uses what the character has as stats, so said character has war scythe( with war scythe you roll 2 d6 to penetrate) and i get three chances with the cc barges sweep attack, also the lych guard have obyron who also has a power scythe. i have used power scythes to munch mech before without issues. the only real problem i have is building a well rounded list that has staying power

i used to run the storm-lord to keep it night and run wraiths scarabs and a lychgaurd, works great till i mess a roll up and day arrives, lol

Thanks for telling the rules on the warscythe, though you're missing the point. You are close combat anti mech. You will need 4+ to hit mostly, when you take out a vehicle (which you probably will) then you are standing there ready to be shot to death next turn. The Overlord on Bagre is cool, but if you need 4+ to hit you're really only going to hit 1.5 times, not massively. The Barge is ok, but any smart opponent who knows what it can do will stop it in time. So to summarise, you need more anti mech as close combat anti mech isn't good enough.

You're talking about having Nemesor Zahndrekhin the CCB, he doesn't have a warscythe and doesn't have the option to get one.

Thank you all for your construction. And correct again he dosnt have the warscyhe my apologies it was late when i posted the thread. I havnt had any problems using cc to take darown vehicals. And my buddies dont have the models to make an anti vehicle army. Also most of the necrons vehicals have qauntom shielding that makes armour 13 on all facings untill penetrate is rolled


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And ive been making most of my saves 59 percent of the time.
and i know that its not to be counted on. But i guess i have the luck of the dice on my side

av13 on the front and side only


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Oh, and saves for 3+ should be 66% chance to save, so you're almost on the dollar.

I think the mind scarabs are your universal defense. To me the problem with necrons is their low initiative translates into taking a whooping in HTH. While you can dance to avoid, it is not 100& always possible so you WILL get into HTH. The best defense is a mind scarab and warscythe necron lord in each squad. That is 60 points but it will make hitting a unit of immortals not so squishy automatic. Just the possibility of a Lord of change charging you and then unleashing 4 attacks on itself and none on you means there is no automatic win for an opponent. I would lose your 225 pts in shielded lych guard for at least 3 of these necron lords.

While lych guard may be more situationally astounding, the royal court necron lords will deliver no matter what opponent you face.

DAaddict wrote:I think the mind scarabs are your universal defense. To me the problem with necrons is their low initiative translates into taking a whooping in HTH. While you can dance to avoid, it is not 100& always possible so you WILL get into HTH. The best defense is a mind scarab and warscythe necron lord in each squad. That is 60 points but it will make hitting a unit of immortals not so squishy automatic. Just the possibility of a Lord of change charging you and then unleashing 4 attacks on itself and none on you means there is no automatic win for an opponent. I would lose your 225 pts in shielded lych guard for at least 3 of these necron lords.

While lych guard may be more situationally astounding, the royal court necron lords will deliver no matter what opponent you face.

I totally agree with the above post. I'm falling more and more in love with the WS/MSS/RO Lord in units of 10 immortals or 20 Warriors. People tend to isolate just the RO or the "Meager" CC abilities, but this guy can hide behind a BUNCH of wounds and packs a serious punch in CC. Add a Phaeron to the Unit and you have a "shooty" unit they can hold it's own against just about any CC unit in the game (go ahead and move within 12" of a unit the can hit you with 40 rapid-fire shots and then assault you with 40 S4WS4 hits plus 7 S7WS4 PW hits and two MSS, I don't care who you are yous about to die).

hit you with 40 rapid-fire shots and then assault

You can't assault after rapid firing

Necronic Angel wrote:

hit you with 40 rapid-fire shots and then assault

You can't assault after rapid firing

I believe with Phaeron you can, but to be honest I've been meaning to double check the wording of Relentless in the BRB. I feel pretty certain though becaue why else would Death Company have relentless?

You can assault with relentless.

Ah you are correct, then back to your suggestion you would need an overlord as regular lords cant get Phaeron, only overlords.

For sure, that's what I meant by "add A Phaeron to the group" as oppose to "add Phaeron to the group"

The more I number crunch the unit the more attached to it I get. It's a pretty nasty unit that can handle itself admirably against most situations.

you make a really good point, i think i will try this out instead, it makes much more sense( and like ShadarLogoth said the more you crunch the numbers, the better it starts to sound, and i can promise you guys one thing math never lies) ill re write the list and we can continue getting a necron army list that will fend off any advisory,

Long live Necrons !


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side note ill crunch all the math and post for you guys to see

I'm sure this thread is dead, and I'm sure since you stated you know the rules for everything night scythe but I must inform you that no scythe night or doom has quantum shielding.... Personally i,d re-read your codex and prob play test the hell outta your list before you repost. Assumption and opinion are never as good as fact....

Pob82 wrote:I'm sure this thread is dead, and I'm sure since you stated you know the rules for everything night scythe but I must inform you that no scythe night or doom has quantum shielding.... Personally i,d re-read your codex and prob play test the hell outta your list before you repost. Assumption and opinion are never as good as fact....

you are correct good sir, thanks for catching that mistake (there's just so much information)
and that's the point of the thread to make a viable playing list, and to test it, ha ha when i get threw a game with the list i will post the results


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[quote=mercer

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Oh, and saves for 3+ should be 66% chance to save, so you're almost on the dollar.

i was reading the codex casual, just enjoying the fluff
some of its nice and some is just stupid not guna lie, and i love the necrons but i discovered a tactic, that can wreck an opponent, if your playing dawn of war,

with orikan the diviner , on the first turn all normal terrain becomes, difficult terrain, for the first turn

now i take c'tan shard and all that difficult terrain becomes dangerous, that gives us the possibility to wipe out the entire army before it even gets on the board(if they decided to put them in reserve) and if there on the board they move, lose a couple guys and take a ld test fail then run off the board there goes the whole unit

im not sure about you guys, but there is the cheese for the necrons, and i think i might just employ this tactic to see how it goes