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I need something cleared up for me, if I put my KFF big mek inside a trukk with some boyz, does the KFF still work?

or do I need him to be on foot for the KFF to work?

It still works. You measure the KFF area of effect from the hull of the vehicle, as per the Transport rules for measuring with embarked models.

Thanks Insaniak!

Page 66, from memory, tells you how ot measure distances for embarked units

It is a fairly common tactic to put a KFF in a battle wagon and roll with 4+ cover for an armored assault. It greatly increases the footprint of the KFF while also protecting the big mek more, too!

-cgmckenzie

Stinkin' blasted orks and your superadvanced force field technology..

Don't forget the Superadvanced 6+ armor save for Ork without Eavy Armor, Mega armor or an Ard Boy. It all balances out in the end.

T-Shirt armour FTW!

Orks have always had a knack for forcefields. It's one way to keep the air in on space hulks with big holes in them

Boss GreenNutz wrote:Don't forget the Superadvanced 6+ armor save for Ork without Eavy Armor, Mega armor or an Ard Boy. It all balances out in the end.

'ard boyz are boyz with 'eavy armor /nitpick

And remember that vehicles have a 4+ cover save from the KFF instead of the infantry 5+ cover save. (vehicles count as 'obscured' by it).

It's not quite as clear cut as that.

Being obscured doesn't grant an automatic 4+ (like a lot of people think). If a vehicle is obscured it may take a cover save "exactly like a non-vehicle model would do against a wound (for example, a save of 5+ for a hedge, 4+ for a building, 3+ for a fortification and so on)" P62

It then goes on to say "If a special rule or a piece of wargear confers to a vehicle the ability of being obscured even in the open, this is a 4+ save unless specified otherwise in the Codex"

The problem is that some people feel that the wording of the KFF rule is such that it does specify a 5+ save for vehicles but it's pretty vague wording.

Most people do seem to go with 4+ but it's something to be aware of if you play Orks.

You realize that the most recent ork FAQ entirely eradicated that argument?

Vehicles within 6" get a 4+ cover save, without doubt.

Yea the rules boyz at GW went against themselves on this one.

The FAQ does say that the KFF gives a 4+ to vehicles.

However the following is correct in all other cases.

Scott-S6 wrote:Being obscured doesn't grant an automatic 4+ (like a lot of people think). If a vehicle is obscured it may take a cover save "exactly like a non-vehicle model would do against a wound (for example, a save of 5+ for a hedge, 4+ for a building, 3+ for a fortification and so on)" P62

It then goes on to say "If a special rule or a piece of wargear confers to a vehicle the ability of being obscured even in the open, this is a 4+ save unless specified otherwise in the Codex"

*Walks through a haunted graveyard seeing the KFF zombies rise from their graves*

AHHHH! BACK BACK! *Waving a FAQ and FIRE at them while running for his life*

not again!!!!!

Scott-S6 wrote:It's not quite as clear cut as that.

Being obscured doesn't grant an automatic 4+ (like a lot of people think). If a vehicle is obscured it may take a cover save "exactly like a non-vehicle model would do against a wound (for example, a save of 5+ for a hedge, 4+ for a building, 3+ for a fortification and so on)" P62

It then goes on to say "If a special rule or a piece of wargear confers to a vehicle the ability of being obscured even in the open, this is a 4+ save unless specified otherwise in the Codex"

The problem is that some people feel that the wording of the KFF rule is such that it does specify a 5+ save for vehicles but it's pretty vague wording.

Most people do seem to go with 4+ but it's something to be aware of if you play Orks.

I still don't understand how people considered this remotely vague in the first place.

"If a special rule or a piece of wargear confers to a vehicle the ability of being obscured even in the open, this is a 4+ save unless specified otherwise in the Codex"

Considering that a KFF is a piece of wargear that confers obscured to vehicles, it flat out says it gets a 4+. (See: "this is a 4+ save" above)

Anyone who argues was just mad that the melta shot didn't blow up the Battlewagon.

Yes, it was beaten to death, but still irritating nonetheless. Thank Gork and Mork that there was a FAQ to clear up the "confusion" :/

Dodgywop wrote:I still don't understand how people considered this remotely vague in the first place.

"If a special rule or a piece of wargear confers to a vehicle the ability of being obscured even in the open, this is a 4+ save unless specified otherwise in the Codex"

Considering that a KFF is a piece of wargear that confers obscured to vehicles, it flat out says it gets a 4+. (See: "this is a 4+ save" above)

Scott-S6 just pointed out why people argued the other way: the 4+ only applies where the codex doesn't specify otherwise... and the codex does specify otherwise. GW chose to ignore this and FAQ it into a 4+ cover save for no apparent reason.

Anyone who argues was just mad that the melta shot didn't blow up the Battlewagon.

I argued against the 4+ fairly extensively up until the FAQ was released. I play Orks.

It's worth keeping in mind in these sort of discussions that not everybody is arguing in order to gain some sort of advantage for themselves. For a lot of us, the motivation is simply promoting a better understanding of the rules, both for ourselves and for others.

Dodgywop wrote:
I still don't understand how people considered this remotely vague in the first place.

"If a special rule or a piece of wargear confers to a vehicle the ability of being obscured even in the open, this is a 4+ save unless specified otherwise in the Codex"

Considering that a KFF is a piece of wargear that confers obscured to vehicles, it flat out says it gets a 4+. (See: "this is a 4+ save" above)

The Issue was that the KFF specifies a 5+ save in the Ork Codex.

At least they finally put that one to bed.

Just poor GW ruleswriting as usual, blown out of proportion/over literalized as usual..

DeathReaper wrote:

Dodgywop wrote:
I still don't understand how people considered this remotely vague in the first place.

"If a special rule or a piece of wargear confers to a vehicle the ability of being obscured even in the open, this is a 4+ save unless specified otherwise in the Codex"

Considering that a KFF is a piece of wargear that confers obscured to vehicles, it flat out says it gets a 4+. (See: "this is a 4+ save" above)

The Issue was that the KFF specifies a 5+ save in the Ork Codex.

Really? Pg. 34 where it says "Vehicles within 6" count as being obscured" is what really made it compelling IMO.

Dodgywop wrote:Really? Pg. 34 where it says "Vehicles within 6" count as being obscured" is what really made it compelling IMO.

Which means it gets 4+ cover save unless the codex specifies otherwise. Which it does.

Kustom Force Field: Meks will build or scavenge powerful force fields with which to protect their warty hides. A kustom force field gives all units within 6" of the mek a cover save of 5+. Vehicles within 6" are treated as obscure targets. The force field has no effect in assault

No where in their does it say that vehicles get a 5+ save, it just says their obscured. The main rulebook says that all obscured targets are 4+ cover save, unless stated otherwise in the codex. Seeing as though "Units" (infantry) and "Vehicles" are separated in the KFF entry, it's safe to say it's a 4+ cover save, that and the FAQ cleared this up.

bombboy1252 wrote: No where in their does it say that vehicles get a 5+ save, it just says their obscured.

You quoted the part that says that all units get a 5+ save...

But we really don't need to hash this all out again. The FAQ has set how GW think it should be played, which is good enough for most people. If anyone really feels nostalgic for the 4+ vs 5+ arguments, the threads are still there if you want to dig them out and read the whole sorry mess once again,

Woooootz KFF!!!!