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Yes, that is the door kicking guy. I have no problem with people liking him. But, unless I am mistaken, there are no doors to be kicked in the TT game. So the aesthetic of the mini doesn't leap out to me. They have about 1 mini per faction that has a lot of movement, but door kicking super armored Russian just doesn't do it for me. Now, bullrushing, door exploding super armored Russian would do it for me. Of extra big, Bear helmeted, big claws super armored Russian would have my swiping my CC anywhere they sold him.
But maybe that got them a bit over their heads in terms of fulfillment and profit?
I think (hope!) that by $500K and 4 paid add-ons that that will be it, and the rest of the way with add to the $120+ pledge level, thereby making it a 'must buy' and making it a success for both sides!
Well, from a purely "crowdfunding" perspective, I personally hope that NO KS's walk away with a profit. That isn't what KS is for. YES, I know that a lot of established companies merely front KS with pre-orders for crap they're going to make regardless. Mantic is shamelessly flaunting that, with pretty much every project they do. CMoN is skirting that shameless flaunting. I'm sure that is why we see so many other companies at this point leaping into KS with both feet. It is free money, with relatively reliable forgiveness on the backside for minor delays and somewhat sketchy product. But I don't wish a monetary loss or funding struggles on any well thought out KS campaign. The ones that fail spectacularly bring that on themselves.
So with Recon, I really hope they don't over extend themselves, but they don't have the right mix of basic game components and add-ons to really drive this into that next level. I think if they pump up the Level 1 SecFor and workers in the basic games, do paid add-on packs to flesh out each of the expansion factions up to 8+ Mercs each, that it would kick this into that overdrive. Also, they need less current era special figures, and more futuristic figures to play with their 2194 timeline. Throw in some TT terrain for the game, some level 4 SecFor or Boss miniatures, and lets get this cooking. Make them paid add-ons, but start enhancing the game guys. All these special workers are ~ok~, but I want some enemies in SGs, something that enhances the gameplay. Please, make me spend my money, please.
I'm still hyped up from my pre-workout supplement, so take this as you will. But this is what I want to hear about this game:
So you want to be a Merc? Good. Because your boss wants what the other Corp has, and it's Your job to get it. So suit up and get in to disrupt that placid corporate playground. You'll be confronted by pencil-neck scientists and Ned the comptroller. You know Ned, he's the guy that screws your pay up every two weeks. You're free to smoke him, but not Martha. She always brings cake when it's someone's birthday. Plus, she'd totally have your Merc babies.
But don't fear! There will be armed adversaries. Worthy? Not really. If they had any viable spermatozoa, their kids would have your poster hanging over their bed, right between Duran Duran and Metallica. But, their will be lots of them, so free target practice! Bet your buddies. See who can get the most knife kills, or go all pistols. So, if you're hankering for some up-armored action, Recon is where it's at. Get in, get out. Beers in the fridge, lowest kill total restocks!
Oh. Don't friend Martha on Merc Chat. She's a total groupie.
I feel Stagnation is not only evident, but sadly a reality.
Myth on the other hand while it had a long flat line in the middle it was a steady sustainable line this just falls and falls, its evident that by the time I posted this it has lost 300$....
PsychoticStorm wrote: They seem to somehow fail to grasp how Kickstarter works and flows.
I dunno, they're funding is at a level most projects would kill for. Perhaps you just don't have insight into their costs and goals.
If I had a project on kickstarter, I am sure I would not like to see it stagnate, I am sure I do not know their costs, I do know their goal is to get it as high as they can, evident from the comments of up to 1m$ I also can see from their comments that they feel both surprised and disappointed by the project's funding so far.
They also seem to handle it a bit amateurish
Anyway, congrats on two more minis.
Really, no, really? that's what I would say as a backer if I wanted to slag the project creator, not what the project creator should say about a streatchgoal.
To conclude this post it I will have to say again....
Recon failed to:
Capitalize the initial funding to make the offer irresistible
Correct the above mistake when the funding was still hot
Doesn't seem to make any move towards this direction
Make streatchgoals that will motivate people.
They also seem to
Have lost faith in gaining more backers and try to get more funding from the already committed backers
Be unwilling to modify their streatchgoals from what they have originally planned in order to make it more attractive
Not be motivated enough to have a presence in their own project
Let the fun community muffle anything negative, constructive or not
I really want this project to succeed and not become an example of how to not run one.
which means the middle slowdown/slump will be far worse as most of those vaguely interested will be backing already.
They depend on people spotting the campaign for the first time for new backers
(the 'last minute' backer will still be watching, but aren't going to jump on till they see what things are like in the last couple of days)
It also likely means that it won't spike nearly as much at the end. People like Alph and I got on very late in the game for example, and were Day-1 backers here...
Have lost faith in gaining more backers and try to get more funding from the already committed backers
Be unwilling to modify their streatchgoals from what they have originally planned in order to make it more attractive
These two in particular (plus my Myth being months away still) are more likely to make me pull my pledge. I often go "all in" but I've got no intention of being nickel and dimed for $200 worth of expansions and "additional purchase" add-ons. (a couple of solo play sheets for $10? really?) I'd rather pay a higher base price (like the $200 level, without the dice game) and have much more of that stuff thrown in.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/26 08:56:05
which means the middle slowdown/slump will be far worse as most of those vaguely interested will be backing already.
They depend on people spotting the campaign for the first time for new backers
(the 'last minute' backer will still be watching, but aren't going to jump on till they see what things are like in the last couple of days)
It also likely means that it won't spike nearly as much at the end. People like Alph and I got on very late in the game for example, and were Day-1 backers here...
Exactly!
For MYTH, I actually was a very last day backer - or slightly thereafter!
I think this one here is going to offer a similar 'wake up call' that Mantic just got on DBX, though for slightly different reasons...
That is, unless they make the deal 'irresistible' again - there's still plenty of time for that.
Or they really may be OK with 'only' getting around S600K-$700K!
It would be interesting to see their back end information for this project. Kicktraq tells me that they had a net gain of 11 backers yesterday, I'd be more initerested to know how many they lost and how many they gained...
They set themselves up for some bad times in my opinion. I get that the company made a bundle on Myth, and that the Myth backers seem to feel they should be granted Myth items in this sci fi board game KS.
But by doing so they got Myth folks to come in on 'Myth Stuff' pledge that is not currently worth what it costs. Now they are trying to add dual use items which take away from making the game the KS is supposed to be funding better. And the Myth level still is not that great.
So you get Myth folks bitching about 'we want moar myth!!' and the Recon/Mercs folks bitching 'we want moar Recon!!!', and the company expending resources attempting pacify both.
I know there is some overlap in the fan base, but I doubt there is as much as MERCS (the company) was hoping for. I base that on the fact they had to create a Myth Only level. Overlap fans would be in at the Recon $120 level...
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
While I could usually afford to let $120 or even $200 ride on a KS, I've really got a pile of things that have to be paid for, ranging from RL concerns to buying actual retail product to the Journey and DeadZone Pledge Managers. There's also a couple of other KS projects I'm watching.
Despite the fact that MYTH (apparently) has no direct competition for my dollars, I'm seeing a lot of much more compelling things to do with that money. Much of which also involves toy spacemans and knights and castles to play with them on. But none of that is in competition with them.
Yeah, I'm going to go with that comment as really having rubbed me the wrong way for some reason. Might be the GW-ish arrogance of it. Maybe if I had my MYTH toys in hand rather than expecting them to send them in 3-4 months if I'm lucky I'd have found it easier to ignore - so instead of a satisfied, happy camper I'm a (more) surly (than usual) bastard?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/26 12:40:46
Well, they said April, I think. Then again, they also mumbled something about absolutely guaranteeing it by June/July, and they lied about Jan delivery (pushed back from Dec, remember?) Split/wave shipping for US and "hold it all back" for filthy foreigners also seems to have become a thing rather suddenly around Jan/Feb as well.
So basically they've burnt my trust in them, and so I expect when they say "April" then I assume it's going to be closer to August.
Yeah, I'm going to go with that comment as really having rubbed me the wrong way for some reason.
I think that comment had all the reasons needed to rub somebody the wrong way distilled in their purest form.
I personally felt the same way.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Well......
That doesn't mean we aren't discussing replacing the bullets, just letting you know it isn't as easy as thinking about what people would buy as add one. Just saying we discuss things and will probably replace it today... however, considering the FANTASTIC stretches out there now, I am sure that the bullets aren't a make or break kinda thing. Basically we need some more backers to put out the next straight to add-on Mission Pack.
Emphasis theirs not mine.
I feel they are clueless or caught up in their own sphere of illusion, if the streatchgoals were fantastic with capital letters, then people would flock and the basic pledges would skyrocket.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/26 13:26:57
That doesn't mean we aren't discussing replacing the bullets, just letting you know it isn't as easy as thinking about what people would buy as add one. Just saying we discuss things and will probably replace it today... however, considering the FANTASTIC stretches out there now, I am sure that the bullets aren't a make or break kinda thing. Basically we need some more backers to put out the next straight to add-on Mission Pack.
Emphasis theirs not mine.
I feel they are clueless or caught up in their own sphere of illusion, if the streatchgoals were fantastic with capital letters, then people would flock and the basic pledges would skyrocket.
The listed stretch goals are adding 20 minis to the $120+ pledge level. That is a pretty nice assortment. And it's currently at 66 minis for $120. That's worth it for me.
They could have done things a little better. Opening up the Infected SG earlier could have sparked interest. Showing off a big wow factor boss mini would have also been nice. A lower level "pick one Myth SG for 15" instead of just all for 40 could have drawn in more of the myth crowd while the Myth SGs built up.
CaulynDarr wrote: The listed stretch goals are adding 20 minis to the $120+ pledge level. That is a pretty nice assortment. And it's currently at 66 minis for $120. That's worth it for me.
They could have done things a little better. Opening up the Infected SG earlier could have sparked interest. Showing off a big wow factor boss mini would have also been nice. A lower level "pick one Myth SG for 15" instead of just all for 40 could have drawn in more of the myth crowd while the Myth SGs built up.
This reply isn't to dissuade you that this KS isn't worth it to everyone who has already pledged. It's merely to try and demonstrate why it's not dragging new people in kicking and screaming.
You said there are 66 miniatures right now at the $120 level. 3 won't see much play (The free judge, GCC agent and dog), and you can only play with one team of mercs, so that is another 21 mercs you won't be using. So that leaves 5 out of 7 mercs on the board, and 30 SecFor models and 4 workers in any given game, plus the actually really nice looking Robocop to be a "boss" feeling mini. So, effectively, you can only really use about half of the mini's their giving us.
That's why so many people keep saying they aren't improving the basic game, and the game experience. Infected earlier wouldn't have improved this. Improving the Recon game itself would improve this. They aren't making this irresistable. It seems more of a marketing tool for remaking the Mercs line in plastic. Great cross-pollination idea, but pimp the game up, not just throw all the Merc factions at us. And the fact that they think their current stretch goals are totally awesome is bewildering. Are they not grasping that their SGs aren't setting the miniatures community on fire? They aren't Games Workshop. The Mercs franchise doesn't have the same depth as 40k. I think GW made more than this KS with the release of their mini-titan Knight.
So, I guess we'll wait and see if Rip Van Winkle wakes up from his Recon KS nap and tries to right the ship. Right now, unless they have an equal number of last minute backers, I'm not sure they'll unlock $500k, even with 3 weeks to go.
Their lack of comms hurts them too. The infected stretch goal is a good example. They show it with no real explanation as to what 'infected' are, nor what will be in the add on expansion or if you can use the 4 free minis without purchasing that expansion.
Folks quickly label them 'zombies' which leads to a variety of opinions and speculation, but does not contribute desire for new pledgers to jump on (you ain't gonna shell out $120 in the hopes you get 4 free plastic zombie figures unless you were already gonna shell out $120 for the game).
MERCs comes out with a comment in the comments section that 'infected are not zombies, they are experiments'. Cool. So what exactly does that mean how the heck does it contribute to the game? Does that answer any of the obvious questions I posed above (info which should have been part of the update announcing them)? No.
Does this help fill out the basic game(s) or teams? No.
A lot of the fans are assuming some MAJ Wedemeyer level plan on MERCs part. I just don't see it.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/03/26 16:13:25
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
This reply isn't to dissuade you that this KS isn't worth it to everyone who has already pledged. It's merely to try and demonstrate why it's not dragging new people in kicking and screaming.
You said there are 66 miniatures right now at the $120 level. 3 won't see much play (The free judge, GCC agent and dog), and you can only play with one team of mercs, so that is another 21 mercs you won't be using. So that leaves 5 out of 7 mercs on the board, and 30 SecFor models and 4 workers in any given game, plus the actually really nice looking Robocop to be a "boss" feeling mini. So, effectively, you can only really use about half of the mini's their giving us.
That's why so many people keep saying they aren't improving the basic game, and the game experience. Infected earlier wouldn't have improved this. Improving the Recon game itself would improve this. They aren't making this irresistable. It seems more of a marketing tool for remaking the Mercs line in plastic. Great cross-pollination idea, but pimp the game up, not just throw all the Merc factions at us. And the fact that they think their current stretch goals are totally awesome is bewildering. Are they not grasping that their SGs aren't setting the miniatures community on fire? They aren't Games Workshop. The Mercs franchise doesn't have the same depth as 40k. I think GW made more than this KS with the release of their mini-titan Knight.
So, I guess we'll wait and see if Rip Van Winkle wakes up from his Recon KS nap and tries to right the ship. Right now, unless they have an equal number of last minute backers, I'm not sure they'll unlock $500k, even with 3 weeks to go.
At any given time I might be only using some of the minis, but I don't use all of my Warmachine or 40K minis every time I play one of those games either. The additional mercs add re-play-ability. They aren't just different models, they have different abilities and stats.
Anyway, have you read the rules? The game uses blind blip counters like Space Hulk. You don't put out a miniature until blips comes into LOS. You don't need piles of miniatures to play the game. The SecFors and special employees are improving the base game as they're replacing what was originally counters.
Its not a good deal, ok, you do not have to take my word for it, you can see the raw data on how the pledges and backers have stagnated.
Lets see for getting this project at 667% of the original goal the basic pledge gets 25 extra minis, the original goal gives you 41, without argue most of the minis given are things the original box game should have already included, No if I see the original box as they intended it on the self I would never buy it, there is no such thing as card counters in a miniatures boardgame, for the miniatures, they can get away with it for terrain such as doors and furniture, but not for the minis the expectations for it have already been set.
The streatchgoals are at best underwhelming, the first gave us six minis for two poses and it costed more than the foundation of the project and if nothing else they are basic soldiers, who without this goal would be, counters?, in a miniatures boardgame? why not say from the start the foundation was at least 120k? moreover all the big streatchgoals barring one and by big I mean costing equal or more than the founding of the project expect us to pay 25$ to get them, why?
No, I do not find this project giving an irresistible offer, the way I see it it still lacks the basic elements fleshed out, upgrade goals that give it elements it should have already in it (and I do hope when this is finished it has them or it will be head to the river Styx) and I do not mean the extra mercs, but civilians and OPFOR, one expects from a project that has reached more than six times its required level to have already fleshed out the basic game, made it an irresistible offer and now seeking to make the basic product even better and see for expansions, not the thing we see now.
And if you think my opinion is not valid, well the backers and the way the pledge levels go, supports my opinion.
The other thing I find odd is that none of the stretch goals actually enhance the retail games. All the plastic security guards should be replacing counters in the retail version if they expect it to sell well. I don't see a lot of folks shelling out $45-60 bucks to have their 5 man squad of plastics fight a horde of cardboard counters.
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
Its not a good deal, ok, you do not have to take my word for it, you can see the raw data on how the pledges and backers have stagnated.
Lets see for getting this project at 667% of the original goal the basic pledge gets 25 extra minis, the original goal gives you 41, without argue most of the minis given are things the original box game should have already included, No if I see the original box as they intended it on the self I would never buy it, there is no such thing as card counters in a miniatures boardgame, for the miniatures, they can get away with it for terrain such as doors and furniture, but not for the minis the expectations for it have already been set.
The streatchgoals are at best underwhelming, the first gave us six minis for two poses and it costed more than the foundation of the project and if nothing else they are basic soldiers, who without this goal would be, counters?, in a miniatures boardgame? why not say from the start the foundation was at least 120k? moreover all the big streatchgoals barring one and by big I mean costing equal or more than the founding of the project expect us to pay 25$ to get them, why?
No, I do not find this project giving an irresistible offer, the way I see it it still lacks the basic elements fleshed out, upgrade goals that give it elements it should have already in it (and I do hope when this is finished it has them or it will be head to the river Styx) and I do not mean the extra mercs, but civilians and OPFOR, one expects from a project that has reached more than six times its required level to have already fleshed out the basic game, made it an irresistible offer and now seeking to make the basic product even better and see for expansions, not the thing we see now.
And if you think my opinion is not valid, well the backers and the way the pledge levels go, supports my opinion.
Did the Mercs guys run over your dog or something? It's not a good deal, so skip it. No harm in that.
I only back when the initial value seems fair and concept looks interesting. 20 28mm miniatures plus components in the basic box for $60 seems pretty fair to me. If I saw that on the shelf at the game store I'd buy it. Then again, I really like co-op games like this.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/03/26 18:14:19
CptJake wrote: The other thing I find odd is that none of the stretch goals actually enhance the retail games. All the plastic security guards should be replacing counters in the retail version if they expect it to sell well. I don't see a lot of folks shelling out $45-60 bucks to have their 5 man squad of plastics fight a horde of cardboard counters.
Agreed. That is the real ball buster. From a box game stand point, neither of these boxes, at $60 or more full retail cost, won't be bought by someone who doesn't want the Mercs figures in plastic. So I can fight 5 mercs against 10 plastic men and some counters with one box.
That is why this truly feels like it is a KS only thing, that this won't have continued support and broadening in the retail market. It is almost purely a vehicle to sell the Mercs line in plastic, only without the TT cards to play them, and with another game you could play with the figures.
CaulynDarr,
As to the replayability, yeah, it has replayability with the exact same figures. But you're looking at this from some other perspective. They gave you 6 SecFor level 1 figures, but there are 11 tokens for them in the game. Why not upgrade the game itself, and replace those 11 tokens with 11 figures? Why did they give us 4 extra level 2 SecFor, and have 4 extra level 3 SecFor lined up in the queue? We already have 10 of those, do I really need 14? But I only have 6 level 1s, who they think I may need as many as 11 in just the basic game.
So, I'm a little Myth-tified (lisp intended) as to what the method to their madness is. From the way they wrote their last update, they themselves don't seem to understand why this isn't selling like hotcakes. They believe that their SGs are ingenious, and that the masses would be lined up to put money in their hands. Mantic had this exact same problem with their DBX KS, and basically had to roll out their last 4 teams with no SGs make their "pre-order" meet the expected value of a KS. You may be a previous Mercs player, so this game holds extra value for you from the Mercs figures themselves. They don't hold any of that value to me, so the game is significantly diminished, since in my eyes, each of those 2 boxes has to stand up to its $60 value on their own, NOT combined. And as I don't know WTF a GCC Judge is or does, that figure is almost as useless as their mini-gun toting fleabag. Robocop was an inspired choice to add to this game, as he fits the aesthetic. But Dwight, Jon McClane and fat cop don't fit the futuristic theme. So the Creators of this KS are sending very random, mixed signals to the miniatures community. And their choices of SGs aren't inspiring more people to get off the fence and back this. That's what this discussion has been about, trying to figure out what they're thinking...
Alpharius wrote: And good luck getting answers from the creators.
They seem depressed, disengaged and somewhat aggressive nowadays...
Perhaps they are menstruating.
One good thing I'll say about Mantic is that when they are running a KS their comms in updates and in the comments section tend to be pretty upbeat even when they are taking a beating. These guys could take a lesson from that.
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
The Mierce guys are hyper-responsive during and, more importantly, AFTER the campaign ends too.
So yes, the MERCS crew could absolutely improve their communications, both in terms of frequency (in the comments section - though admittedly it is a bit of a mess in there) and 'tone'.
I agree about the tone,..... I'm sure things are a bit hairy there with the uproar about the MYTH RB,... they seem to be scrambling to put together a solution in time for the wave 2 shipment,.......
If the MYTH shipment and response had been very good,... I think Recon would be blazing right now.
Their plate seems very full for a hand full of guys at the moment.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/26 19:53:45
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