Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Except land raiders, of course.

And it is still taking away the only real weakness IG vehicles have.

Land Raiders are hardly 500+ points. Not even the FW ones are that overpriced.

A fully kitted Custodes Land Raider clocks in at 435 points. That’s one Lascannon away from being more expensive than a barebones Baneblade.

While it’s technically correct that Land Raiders are less than 500+ points, the main thrust of your argument here doesn’t really hold up.

Edit: It also bears mentioning that Land Raiders are pretty much impossible to screen due to their role as an assault transport - you want them at the front of the army, if they’re hiding behind something then they’re not doing their job.

 Galas wrote:
5 point Skitarii and 6 point vanguard WTF Xenomancers do you even balance?

I am only aware of the 10 point skitari my buddy takes. They are worth 7-8 at most. A fire warrior is 7 now - I don't think that's a big leap.

Skitarii dropped to 7/8 in last CA, which was honestly why we all knew firewarriors would be 7ppm max.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Baneblades needing a price increase because they cant be locked in CC, while losing out on orders and other abilities, being harder to fit into army lists, and having dramatically less resiliency than similar points of normal Russ tanks (26 vs 36 wounds), doesn't seem terribly necessary.

Likewise, bringing Manticores up to over 180pts isn't going to do anything for balance except remove Manticores from tables. Indirect fire isn't worth *that* much (not with 8E terrain, TLoS, and most actual terrain pieces), especially not over a Russ tank thats packing an otherwise identical main gun, better resiliency, and an array of flexible secondary heavy weapons and access to Orders for the same price. Making Mortar teams 8pts more each basically returns them to their 5E price level of 60pts for a squad, which will also probably see them evaporate from the table, as nobody took them then, or really ever, until 8E. Could Mortars use a bit of a bump? Perhaps, but 8ppm is overkill.


That said im all about seeing some CP changes, anything to reduce Soup and unintended synergies.

Manticore outshoots most everything around 200 points - all of those units need to see the opponent to shoot them - what is indirect fire worth to you? The only reason I don't think it should cost over 200 points is it has no usable secondary weapon where those tanks do (example LR commanders / las preds / sicarians) and it's significantly easier to kill out in the open. Even at 180 3-4 would be in every competitive AM list.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Baneblades needing a price increase because they cant be locked in CC, while losing out on orders and other abilities, being harder to fit into army lists, and having dramatically less resiliency than similar points of normal Russ tanks (26 vs 36 wounds), doesn't seem terribly necessary.

Likewise, bringing Manticores up to over 180pts isn't going to do anything for balance except remove Manticores from tables. Indirect fire isn't worth *that* much (not with 8E terrain, TLoS, and most actual terrain pieces), especially not over a Russ tank thats packing an otherwise identical main gun, better resiliency, and an array of flexible secondary heavy weapons and access to Orders for the same price. Making Mortar teams 8pts more each basically returns them to their 5E price level of 60pts for a squad, which will also probably see them evaporate from the table, as nobody took them then, or really ever, until 8E. Could Mortars use a bit of a bump? Perhaps, but 8ppm is overkill.


That said im all about seeing some CP changes, anything to reduce Soup and unintended synergies.

Manticore outshoots most everything around 200 points

By what standard and circumstance?

- all of those units need to see the opponent to shoot them - what is indirect fire worth to you?

That's exactly it, indirect fire is of highly variable value. Can it be amazing? Yes. Can it be worthless? Depending on available terrain, 8E terrain and TLoS rules, deployment, opposing army style, etc...? Equally so.

The Manticore trades +1T, a Wound, secondary weapons options access, Orders, potential Defenders of Humanity, several potential turns of shooting, and the ability to Squadron that a Leman Russ Battle Tank enjoys for Indirect Fire and a 9pt base price difference. If you're going to make the Manticore 180+pts, then the variable value of indirect fire is much harder to justify over just taking a kitted out Russ tank unless you're fairly certain that fair amounts of LoS blocking terrain are going to be available and you're facing armies that won't just be jumping everything across the board into your deployment zone turn 1 anyway. If you know that for sure, then yes, that indirect fire is going to be awesome. For a general take all comers list however, where such things may be unknown at a tournament or in pickup play, that's a harder sell than the kitted Russ I feel, especially with the build opportunities the army offers for constructing around Russ tanks.

The only reason I don't think it should cost over 200 points is it has no usable secondary weapon where those tanks do (example LR commanders / las preds / sicarians) and it's significantly easier to kill out in the open. Even at 180 3-4 would be in every competitive AM list.

I can tell you I would almost certainly be dramatically more inclined to just run Russ tanks instead myself. As-is we don't see 3-4 in every competitive IG list. As a general trend they don't appear that wildly popular, with a quick perusal of the army list subforum, there were 13 Russ tanks and 1 Manticore across 5 army lists containing an IG component on the first page as of this posting.

If firing indirectly gave you a -1 to hit penalty, then the Manticore would be alright at its current value.

Martel732 wrote:
Cultists would need love vis a vis guardsmen.

I think make indirect fire -1 to hit and make all orders on a 4+ and make conscripts not take orders at all might be a thing to try.

I like it - no doubt the IG police will show up soon to dismiss it as a unnecessary nerf because IG are bottom tier

Orders should never have been automatic. Some sort of risk of failure is needed.

Another option could be going back to previous editions, rolling 2D6 and aim for under the units LD for the order to be heard - reroll or maybe +1/+2 for having a vox caster. Double 1's jams the vox and prevents any further orders that turn.

 NurglesR0T wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Cultists would need love vis a vis guardsmen.

I think make indirect fire -1 to hit and make all orders on a 4+ and make conscripts not take orders at all might be a thing to try.

I like it - no doubt the IG police will show up soon to dismiss it as a unnecessary nerf because IG are bottom tier

Orders should never have been automatic. Some sort of risk of failure is needed.

Another option could be going back to previous editions, rolling 2D6 and aim for under the units LD for the order to be heard - reroll or maybe +1/+2 for having a vox caster. Double 1's jams the vox and prevents any further orders that turn.

Not a guard player but if you bring that back I want

Deep strike scatter for matched
Rolling for reserves for matched
All auras work on a 2+ and only affect 1 unit for matched

Basically most auto abilities dropped to add a failure chance. Never been a fan of anything happening without a little risk

gendoikari87 wrote:
So is it true gw is focusing solely on things being spammed at tournaments?

Or what isn't spammed. They can even give 300% price hikes to stuff that wasn't broken to begin with. You have to remember GW isn't doing point changes for sake of balance. They don't CARE about it. It's irrelevant to them. What they want is MONEY. They want to shuffle people buying stuff that they didn't already have. And plastic over resin since 100£ on plastic gives them more profit than 100£ on resin.

I am pretty certain resin has cheaper molds but long term big sales are better in plastic because those molds last longer.

They want money but changing the balance on a dime doesn't work IMHO. People chasing the meta mostly buy secondhand in my opinion. And from what I have seen in my local GW awesome looking kit drives sales a hell of a lot more than good in game.

Also I don't think GW can use the perfect imbalance system, the game (balance) just isn't precise enough.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Rhino -20 points

And then ork trukks and drukhari venoms should be 35ppm.

The rhino is probably the cheapest transport in the game and definitely among of the most efficient ones. It's the SM style of playing that discourages to embark units in a rhino. But that transport works well for chaos assault units, and it's not trash in SW lists, which suffer because they still have to rely on an index but even now rhinos seem costed properly. It also works well for SoB.

At this point I don't expect any change on SM. Eldar and AM should get some nerfs, probably their most abused units with an higher points cost.

Changes for chaps space marones id like to see (these changes only apply to codex CSM)
Mono god rules
Khorne if every model on this detachment has the khorne keyword they gain +1 attack and +1 strength on the turn they charge (basically a slightly weaker version of the khorne daemon rule for csm)
Nurgle if every modal in this detachment has the Nurgle keyword they gain +1 toughness but must half the D6 when rolling to advance (rounding up)
Tzeench if every model in this detachment has the Tzeench Keyword they gain +1 to their invulnerable save or a 5+ invulnerable if they don't have one
Slaanesh if every model in this detachment has the slaanesh keyword they add +3 to their move advance and charge rolls.
Unaligned if every mpdel in this detachment doesn't take a chaos mark they gain +1 leadership and may take units of blood letters pink horrors daemonettes and plague bearers in a detachment without breaking heretic a started allegiance. However these units may not be taken as compulsory troops choices.
Obliterators stay as they are but on a turn they deep strike on count as having advanced (so are at -1 to hit if they shoot that turn)
CSM can take bolter bolt pistol and chain sword (same for chosen )
Noise marines may take a chain sword in addition to their sonic blaster

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Baneblades needing a price increase because they cant be locked in CC, while losing out on orders and other abilities, being harder to fit into army lists, and having dramatically less resiliency than similar points of normal Russ tanks (26 vs 36 wounds), doesn't seem terribly necessary.

Likewise, bringing Manticores up to over 180pts isn't going to do anything for balance except remove Manticores from tables. Indirect fire isn't worth *that* much (not with 8E terrain, TLoS, and most actual terrain pieces), especially not over a Russ tank thats packing an otherwise identical main gun, better resiliency, and an array of flexible secondary heavy weapons and access to Orders for the same price. Making Mortar teams 8pts more each basically returns them to their 5E price level of 60pts for a squad, which will also probably see them evaporate from the table, as nobody took them then, or really ever, until 8E. Could Mortars use a bit of a bump? Perhaps, but 8ppm is overkill.


That said im all about seeing some CP changes, anything to reduce Soup and unintended synergies.

Manticore outshoots most everything around 200 points - all of those units need to see the opponent to shoot them - what is indirect fire worth to you? The only reason I don't think it should cost over 200 points is it has no usable secondary weapon where those tanks do (example LR commanders / las preds / sicarians) and it's significantly easier to kill out in the open. Even at 180 3-4 would be in every competitive AM list.

Honestly i find that indirect fire is almost worthless, in 8th completely negating LOS is really hard, especially on a Manticore which isn't exactly that small.
That changes if you play ITC, but you are digging your own grave there.

tneva82 wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
So is it true gw is focusing solely on things being spammed at tournaments?

Or what isn't spammed. They can even give 300% price hikes to stuff that wasn't broken to begin with. You have to remember GW isn't doing point changes for sake of balance. They don't CARE about it. It's irrelevant to them. What they want is MONEY. They want to shuffle people buying stuff that they didn't already have. And plastic over resin since 100£ on plastic gives them more profit than 100£ on resin.

This is laughable because GW isn't good enough at balance/understanding what is and isn't good to actually do this.

 NurglesR0T wrote:
no doubt the IG police will show up soon to dismiss it as a unnecessary nerf because IG are bottom tier

IG police here. The delusion in this thread is unreal. Might as well be discussing how to nerf harlequins. IG hasn't been competitive for months but you people won't rest until it's ground into nothing. Why yes, lets nerf baneblades, basilisks, manticores, russes, and infantry. Why doesn't guard use all its other awesome options like sentinels, ratlings, and wyrdvanes? DURRRR

I want an honest opinion here. If you get the changes you listed in this thread that you would like to see done to guard, do you see them placing in tournaments? Because they don't place in tournaments now, in their presumably broken form. Where do you see them post-changes? Top of the trash pile? Middle of the trash pile? Maybe the very bottom of the trash pile? Probably squarely in the middle of the trash pile.

I can only pray GW ignores this forum.

 Formosa wrote:

 NurglesR0T wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Cultists would need love vis a vis guardsmen.

I think make indirect fire -1 to hit and make all orders on a 4+ and make conscripts not take orders at all might be a thing to try.

I like it - no doubt the IG police will show up soon to dismiss it as a unnecessary nerf because IG are bottom tier

Orders should never have been automatic. Some sort of risk of failure is needed.

Another option could be going back to previous editions, rolling 2D6 and aim for under the units LD for the order to be heard - reroll or maybe +1/+2 for having a vox caster. Double 1's jams the vox and prevents any further orders that turn.

Not a guard player but if you bring that back I want

Deep strike scatter for matched
Rolling for reserves for matched
All auras work on a 2+ and only affect 1 unit for matched

Basically most auto abilities dropped to add a failure chance. Never been a fan of anything happening without a little risk

With those changes guardsmen become 9ppm lol. I'm suggesting to nerf orders only as a way to balance guardsmen vs other 4ppm models. Guardsmen already make deep strike worthless for the opponent.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ThePorcupine wrote:

 NurglesR0T wrote:
no doubt the IG police will show up soon to dismiss it as a unnecessary nerf because IG are bottom tier

IG police here. The delusion in this thread is unreal. Might as well be discussing how to nerf harlequins. IG hasn't been competitive for months but you people won't rest until it's ground into nothing. Why yes, lets nerf baneblades, basilisks, manticores, russes, and infantry. Why doesn't guard use all its other awesome options like sentinels, ratlings, and wyrdvanes? DURRRR

I want an honest opinion here. If you get the changes you listed in this thread that you would like to see done to guard, do you see them placing in tournaments? Because they don't place in tournaments now, in their presumably broken form. Where do you see them post-changes? Top of the trash pile? Middle of the trash pile? Maybe the very bottom of the trash pile? Probably squarely in the middle of the trash pile.

I can only pray GW ignores this forum.

IG will be back to killing everyone trivially once dark reapers are nerfed. Altioc reapers are THE meta check against ig. They also make the other -1 to hit factions unusable, but omelets and eggs and all that.

I'm already tired of boring uncompetitive games vs static gunlines full of undercosted cheese in 8th. So no, i'm not resting.

 Blackie wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Rhino -20 points

And then ork trukks and drukhari venoms should be 35ppm.

The rhino is probably the cheapest transport in the game and definitely among of the most efficient ones. It's the SM style of playing that discourages to embark units in a rhino. But that transport works well for chaos assault units, and it's not trash in SW lists, which suffer because they still have to rely on an index but even now rhinos seem costed properly. It also works well for SoB.

At this point I don't expect any change on SM. Eldar and AM should get some nerfs, probably their most abused units with an higher points cost.

I was saying - 20 points. This would make it 52 points. Not sure what an ork truck should cost but something like 40 points sounds about right. It should be faster but easier to kill.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Spoletta wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Baneblades needing a price increase because they cant be locked in CC, while losing out on orders and other abilities, being harder to fit into army lists, and having dramatically less resiliency than similar points of normal Russ tanks (26 vs 36 wounds), doesn't seem terribly necessary.

Likewise, bringing Manticores up to over 180pts isn't going to do anything for balance except remove Manticores from tables. Indirect fire isn't worth *that* much (not with 8E terrain, TLoS, and most actual terrain pieces), especially not over a Russ tank thats packing an otherwise identical main gun, better resiliency, and an array of flexible secondary heavy weapons and access to Orders for the same price. Making Mortar teams 8pts more each basically returns them to their 5E price level of 60pts for a squad, which will also probably see them evaporate from the table, as nobody took them then, or really ever, until 8E. Could Mortars use a bit of a bump? Perhaps, but 8ppm is overkill.


That said im all about seeing some CP changes, anything to reduce Soup and unintended synergies.

Manticore outshoots most everything around 200 points - all of those units need to see the opponent to shoot them - what is indirect fire worth to you? The only reason I don't think it should cost over 200 points is it has no usable secondary weapon where those tanks do (example LR commanders / las preds / sicarians) and it's significantly easier to kill out in the open. Even at 180 3-4 would be in every competitive AM list.

Honestly i find that indirect fire is almost worthless, in 8th completely negating LOS is really hard, especially on a Manticore which isn't exactly that small.
That changes if you play ITC, but you are digging your own grave there.

indirect fire is completely worthless now?



Even if you can't block LOS to your manticore vs every model in the opponents army - you should (or you aren't playing with suitable amount of terrain) be able to block a significant portion of his army from shooting at it. The real benefit to indirect fire is the opponent can't hide units from you.

tneva82 wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
So is it true gw is focusing solely on things being spammed at tournaments?

Or what isn't spammed. They can even give 300% price hikes to stuff that wasn't broken to begin with. You have to remember GW isn't doing point changes for sake of balance. They don't CARE about it. It's irrelevant to them. What they want is MONEY. They want to shuffle people buying stuff that they didn't already have. And plastic over resin since 100£ on plastic gives them more profit than 100£ on resin.

According to you GW can't write good rules at all, but somehow they're able to figure out how to manipulate everyone into buying exactly what they want you to buy.

If they're so good at this, why then did they have to drop points on brand spanking new kits?



Your 300% tag line is still bs. The average point change for FW listings was 11%. For non-FW units it was -11%.

If you remove the following units from the FW point changes the average FW change is 1%. These units represent 16% of all the listed FW point changes.

On the subject of introducing a risk of failure factor to IG orders, I don't think it's worthwhile. In previous editions, the risk of failure was so minimal, it hardly ever was relevant to the outcome of the game. All it did was make my opponent's turns take longer, and the game is time consuming enough as it is.

I don't think there's anything wrong with IG auto-passing orders. After all, many other armies' characters have a bubble aura granting an ability that IG officers can select one or two specific units to get.

The sheer variety of them, on the other hand, may need some toning down. Get Back In The Fight is something other armies need to spend a strat on, and Move Move Move lets IG Infantry Squads keep up with Ravenwing Bikes. The Swiss Army Knife of buffs is far more likely to be problematic than the auto-pass.

Have 'unlocking" them cost CP? guard have one of the biggest pools out there.

SO you would have spend a CP and then you gain the ability to give FRSF where possible and so forth.

Does anyone have some recent tourney results? After the GT and the LVO I haven't seen any. Or is that because there hasn't really been anything major?

 Xenomancers wrote:
Baneblade is the one of the few super heavy that isn't overpriced ATM. I hope they don't nerf it.

Here is what I want to see in CA.

Dark reapers +10 points each
Shinning spears +12 points each.
Manticores +40 points
Basalisk +20 points
Mortor team +8 points
Obliterators +10 points

Psychic denial determined by the casting target - not the psyker.

Command points generated by a detachment can only be used on stratagems for units in that detachment.

Space marine and CSM army traits apply to all chapter/legion units.

Space marine/csm -3 points base for every infantry based unit in PA. -5 points for every infantry based unit in Terminator armor. (includes all flvaros/ BA / DA / GK ect.)
All Grav type weapons imperial spanning - 5 points.
Rhino -20 points
Drop pod - 30 points
Repulsor/landraider -80 points base
Every space marine/CSM tank -15 points respectively if not included in any above mention.

Horma/termagant get 5+ saves.
Crisis suits dropped -10 points base
Admech destroyers varients -10 points base
Admech infantry - 2 points base

Stuff like this is what I would want to see. Nerf the stuff that is obviosuly too strong. Buff the stuff that is obviously too weak.

Do the Sisters power armour infantry and Rhinos (etc) also get a similar drop?

Have you included the bonus effect of adding Chapter/Legion Tactics to the Marine vehicles - of course Sisters and some other Factions still don't have that bonus but maybe get it eventually.

I think some Imperial Knight Weapons could use some work - the Errent's Melta for instance?

In my experience, there is always that part of the vehicle that sticks out, or that window, or that crack in the wall.

Sure, sometimes you play with those nice big blocks made from icecream boxes. In that case you can hide a manticore behind them and be safe, in fact i said ALMOST worthless, not completely. Sometimes, on the right table you can hide a manticore. Spammed (3 or more) manticores being out of LOS though is fantahammer.

Spoletta wrote:

Spoiler:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Blackie wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Rhino -20 points

And then ork trukks and drukhari venoms should be 35ppm.

The rhino is probably the cheapest transport in the game and definitely among of the most efficient ones. It's the SM style of playing that discourages to embark units in a rhino. But that transport works well for chaos assault units, and it's not trash in SW lists, which suffer because they still have to rely on an index but even now rhinos seem costed properly. It also works well for SoB.

At this point I don't expect any change on SM. Eldar and AM should get some nerfs, probably their most abused units with an higher points cost.

I was saying - 20 points. This would make it 52 points. Not sure what an ork truck should cost but something like 40 points sounds about right. It should be faster but easier to kill.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Spoletta wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Baneblades needing a price increase because they cant be locked in CC, while losing out on orders and other abilities, being harder to fit into army lists, and having dramatically less resiliency than similar points of normal Russ tanks (26 vs 36 wounds), doesn't seem terribly necessary.

Likewise, bringing Manticores up to over 180pts isn't going to do anything for balance except remove Manticores from tables. Indirect fire isn't worth *that* much (not with 8E terrain, TLoS, and most actual terrain pieces), especially not over a Russ tank thats packing an otherwise identical main gun, better resiliency, and an array of flexible secondary heavy weapons and access to Orders for the same price. Making Mortar teams 8pts more each basically returns them to their 5E price level of 60pts for a squad, which will also probably see them evaporate from the table, as nobody took them then, or really ever, until 8E. Could Mortars use a bit of a bump? Perhaps, but 8ppm is overkill.


That said im all about seeing some CP changes, anything to reduce Soup and unintended synergies.

Manticore outshoots most everything around 200 points - all of those units need to see the opponent to shoot them - what is indirect fire worth to you? The only reason I don't think it should cost over 200 points is it has no usable secondary weapon where those tanks do (example LR commanders / las preds / sicarians) and it's significantly easier to kill out in the open. Even at 180 3-4 would be in every competitive AM list.

Honestly i find that indirect fire is almost worthless, in 8th completely negating LOS is really hard, especially on a Manticore which isn't exactly that small.
That changes if you play ITC, but you are digging your own grave there.

indirect fire is completely worthless now?



Even if you can't block LOS to your manticore vs every model in the opponents army - you should (or you aren't playing with suitable amount of terrain) be able to block a significant portion of his army from shooting at it. The real benefit to indirect fire is the opponent can't hide units from you.

In my experience, there is always that part of the vehicle that sticks out, or that window, or that crack in the wall.

Sure, sometimes you play with those nice big blocks made from icecream boxes. In that case you can hide a manticore behind them and be safe, in fact i said ALMOST worthless, not completely. Sometimes, on the right table you can hide a manticore. Spammed (3 or more) manticores being out of LOS though is fantahammer.

Not on NOVA standard terrain. I can say they're standard terrain allows for 3 Manticores (and probably a little more) to be completely hidden from LoS at deployment.

Yeah. I've rarely played on a table where you could hide more than 1 Manticore completely out of LOS from the entire enemy deployment zone, and this includes my games at NOVA.

Spoletta wrote:


Sure, sometimes you play with those nice big blocks made from icecream boxes. In that case you can hide a manticore behind them and be safe, in fact i said ALMOST worthless, not completely. Sometimes, on the right table you can hide a manticore. Spammed (3 or more) manticores being out of LOS though is fantahammer.

Or you play with the ITC terrain rules where the bottom floor always blocks LoS.

 Farseer_V2 wrote:

Spoletta wrote:


Sure, sometimes you play with those nice big blocks made from icecream boxes. In that case you can hide a manticore behind them and be safe, in fact i said ALMOST worthless, not completely. Sometimes, on the right table you can hide a manticore. Spammed (3 or more) manticores being out of LOS though is fantahammer.

Or you play with the ITC terrain rules where the bottom floor always blocks LoS.

Indeed, refer to my first comment.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Yeah. I've rarely played on a table where you could hide more than 1 Manticore completely out of LOS from the entire enemy deployment zone, and this includes my games at NOVA.

The problem with Manticores is not them hiding, but stuff trying to hide from them.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Yeah. I've rarely played on a table where you could hide more than 1 Manticore completely out of LOS from the entire enemy deployment zone, and this includes my games at NOVA.

The problem with Manticores is not them hiding, but stuff trying to hide from them.

I too try to defy enemy MLRS batteries by hiding behind a low hedge.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Baneblade is the one of the few super heavy that isn't overpriced ATM. I hope they don't nerf it.

Here is what I want to see in CA.

Dark reapers +10 points each
Shinning spears +12 points each.
Manticores +40 points
Basalisk +20 points
Mortor team +8 points
Obliterators +10 points

Psychic denial determined by the casting target - not the psyker.

Command points generated by a detachment can only be used on stratagems for units in that detachment.

Space marine and CSM army traits apply to all chapter/legion units.

Space marine/csm -3 points base for every infantry based unit in PA. -5 points for every infantry based unit in Terminator armor. (includes all flvaros/ BA / DA / GK ect.)
All Grav type weapons imperial spanning - 5 points.
Rhino -20 points
Drop pod - 30 points
Repulsor/landraider -80 points base
Every space marine/CSM tank -15 points respectively if not included in any above mention.

Horma/termagant get 5+ saves.
Crisis suits dropped -10 points base
Admech destroyers varients -10 points base
Admech infantry - 2 points base

Stuff like this is what I would want to see. Nerf the stuff that is obviosuly too strong. Buff the stuff that is obviously too weak.

Do the Sisters power armour infantry and Rhinos (etc) also get a similar drop?

Have you included the bonus effect of adding Chapter/Legion Tactics to the Marine vehicles - of course Sisters and some other Factions still don't have that bonus but maybe get it eventually.

I think some Imperial Knight Weapons could use some work - the Errent's Melta for instance?

Sisters to me seem properly costed - but their rhinos I think should drop in cost for sure. Also any army trait that sisters eventually receive should also apply to their vehicles. This is just my opinion.

Some of the knight weapons aren't up to snuff for sure - the rapid battle cannon is pretty bad too. They have a lot of options though that aren't bad - the gatling cannon is great - if it could take 2 Gatling cannons everyone would.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Yeah. I've rarely played on a table where you could hide more than 1 Manticore completely out of LOS from the entire enemy deployment zone, and this includes my games at NOVA.

The problem with Manticores is not them hiding, but stuff trying to hide from them.

Yep. Range in itself is a huge defensive benefit.

Ask me how many times my 2 fireprisims I deploy in the 2 farthest corners of the board get targeted? The answer is practically never. Manitcores effectively have unlimmited range and are out of range of at least 80% of your opponents shooting. If you can block out the 20% of the targets can reach you with an obstruction - boom - you are effectively impervious to damage while not being 100% out of LOS to all enemies.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Yeah. I've rarely played on a table where you could hide more than 1 Manticore completely out of LOS from the entire enemy deployment zone, and this includes my games at NOVA.

My friend regularly took 3 Manticores and never had trouble keeping them out of LoS behind the mountain terrain. You put 2 back there and 1 behind a Ruin wall (the big one).

Now, can your opponent move and find you? Sure! But you can definitely deploy out of LoS of a deployment zone.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Yeah. I've rarely played on a table where you could hide more than 1 Manticore completely out of LOS from the entire enemy deployment zone, and this includes my games at NOVA.

The problem with Manticores is not them hiding, but stuff trying to hide from them.

It's both. Indirect fire is undercosted currently (by comparison, psychic access is overcosted).