Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hello everyone I am just starting Imperial Guard and was hoping to get some advice for a scratch built Commissar I am currently building. The question is this:

At the moment I have him set up with a Biotic arm power sword. Now in the codex it says I can exchange both weapons for one of the three options. Would it be beneficial to additionaly give him a powerfist? Or is that more of a redundant thing?

Also on a side note you can have one commissar for each PCS as an upgrade yes?

Commissars don't belong in PCS. They simply just don't do anything useful. Keep them in a blob of 20-40 guardsmen to give them stubborn, and in that case, you'll want to give him a power sword.

Ok thanks. Should I also give him a powerfist as well though?
A buddy said that it should be fine but he wasnt positive either thus the post here.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok after having read the entry for having a commisar in a troop blob ive found that you can no longer take the power fist upgrade. Thanks for your help.

Blacksails wrote:Commissars don't belong in PCS.

That's not true. What IS true, though, is that you should only ever put a commissar in a squad that you don't want to run away in close combat. The only way a 45+ point commissar is going to be worth it to save a 50 point PCS is if the PCS is, itself, kitted for close combat. A "punchy" PCS with 2x hidden power fists makes a decent close combat option, but whether you should include it or not should be based on what you're doing with the rest of your army.

Keep him with a power weapon if he's going to be anywhere but a PCS, and only give him a fist if you specifically want him in a PCS (or want to use him as a lord commissar with a fist), as you can't put him anywhere else.

Ok well if this helps at all im working on an Imperial Guard Gunline with Vehicular artillery as well as heavy weapons squads to help take out threats further in. I was thinking of also adding in a squad or two of vets in order to pack a better CC Punch.

Stick with power weapon (Doesn't HAVE to be a sword) and bolt pistol. You don't want to give them plasma, and the fist seems like overkill really (You should have plenty of weapons elsewhere in the army capable of killing mech things faster than a fist)

I just have a hard time thinking of a PCS as any form of credible or remotely credible assault option. The officer would have a fist, as would the commissar, bringing the cost up to 95pts for the unit, then I guess you'd take four flamers for the pre-assault BBQ, bringing it to 115pts. At the end of the day, its still only 6 T3 5+ save models. I think the points are better spent elsewhere, and the commissars saved for the blob squads.

Ailaros wrote: A "punchy" PCS with 2x hidden power fists makes a decent close combat option.

I disagree. There's no way someone is going to ignore a small unit with two power fists, especially if you charge into an assault with them. I do agree that a command squad's equipment should reflect a role the player wants, however, there's alot of risk with a two-fist Platoon Command Squad.

A Commissar is great for combined squads. Whether or not he should have a power weapon really depends on what your doing with that blob. Remember that Summary Execution only works once per leadership test, and if the squad fails their leadership again, they run.

Well I was thinking of mostly a gunline with 2 power blobs for assaulty goodness. Though was thinking of maybe adding a leman russ squadron in order to further increase the close range killing. Im not exactly certain how to make a succesful style gunline that will be ready to withstand CC. I was thinking of some sort of hybridized list but I really want to avoid the IG parking lot style.

If you're having a commissar in a PCS and you want them to have some form of CC ability you pick the P/Fist. You need a reason to downgrade to the power weapon. Power weapons are a touch pricey for guard at 10 points and for 5 pts more you get the much more powerful fist.

As for infantry squads, only equip the commissar on large combined sqauds. One per squad is far too pricey. Give the commissar equipment to reflect his units role. A power blob would want a power weapon and maybe a plasma pistol. The pistol, although expensive, usually gets you a few wounds head start on the combat when you have the sergeants with them too. Even more so in combination with flamers. I will note that you need to be careful not to kill too many models so that the enemy can remove casualties in a way that you are then out of range.

My biggest concern with commissars is that at 35pts for the base model, they are about as expensive as some of the units that they protect after a volley of fire and a failed moral test. Add them sparingly to the units you simply cannot have fall back. You can help the rest with company standards and orders.

Ok thank you. Sorry for all the questions im very much trying to come into my own.

Two Power Fists on a squad with T3, 6 wounds and 5+ armour save. Definitely not a good idea.

OK thanks.

I would avoid putting plasma pistols on single wound models that you want to keep from dying. Inside a 20-30 man blob the commissar is very resilient. If you take a gets hot it is as if the enemy has sniped him and made the blob much worse. In fact, only lord commissars and company commanders should get plasma in my opinion, as they have the wounds to take the risk with.

Joey wrote:Two Power Fists on a squad with T3, 6 wounds and 5+ armour save. Definitely not a good idea.

Honestly, I actually want to try this out -- if you use them as a counter-charge unit (meaning after the enemy assaulted a blob squad), there isn't going to be a lot of models that can swing back at the PCS squad due to allocation rules.

I wouldn't even give the squad any special weapons -- just keep them right behind the blob squad and they should look rather indistinguishable from everyone else.

Joey wrote:Two Power Fists on a squad with T3, 6 wounds and 5+ armour save. Definitely not a good idea.

It's actually not that bad. Think of it as a bunch of S6 attacks with some abblative wounds. Will this be good against dedicated CC units? Probably not. What it WILL be good against is things that have a tough time fighting back, like wraithlord or non-walker vehicles that you're now hitting on rear armor, as well as already hurt units. A punchy PCS can't beat a squad of assault termies by itself (for nearly a third the cost, I'd hope they couldn't), but they are certainly able to finish off stragglers.

Yes, they're only a 6-man squad, so they're going to suffer from the same kinds of saturation problems that SWSs and HWSs (much less PCSs and CCSs) have. Deciding to make a squad useless just so it doesn't get shot at doesn't sound like a winning strategy, though...

I agree with you Ailaros. But I do have a quick question. Is there a way to make a good infantry based IG army with maybe some vehicular artillery to help back up said infantry or is that really not a competitive option anymore? Im not so much asking for a list but mostly a yes or no and a few ideas to help me plan out my list.

Also I was in a debate last night with a buddy on the uses of a leman russ punisher. As the 20 shots a turn seems like itd be beneficial in thinning out those squads getting in range of my infantry. That way increasing my infantrys survivability rates.

TheNewMexicanGeneral wrote:
Also I was in a debate last night with a buddy on the uses of a leman russ punisher. As the 20 shots a turn seems like itd be beneficial in thinning out those squads getting in range of my infantry. That way increasing my infantrys survivability rates.

I've been thinking the same thing -- at the moment my opinion is that the punisher is probably too expensive for that role. I'm plan on doing a few test games though to find out.

On the other hand, I've never regretted using Leman Russ Demolishers for that role.

TheNewMexicanGeneral wrote:I agree with you Ailaros. But I do have a quick question. Is there a way to make a good infantry based IG army with maybe some vehicular artillery to help back up said infantry or is that really not a competitive option anymore?

certainly. Power blobs armed with meltaguns are able to handle anything provided you bring enough blob. The one thing they can't handle is things they can't catch. Things like DE raider spam, or eldar going nuts with falcons and serpents, and the like. For that, either you need some sort of special mobility (like stormies), or some sort of long-range firepower. You can use HWSs for this, but you can also use vehicles like hydras and other HS options.

The trick is to not take support units that are good at what power blobs are already good at. Hydras and exterminators and manticores are good ideas, executioners, regular russes and demolishers are not.

Ok thanks. I am going to try and iron out a list then as I plan on having a friendly game with my dad and lil brother this weekend and will give it a go. I think I am going to run 1 exterminator and 1 manticore. I know for a fact im going up against necrons as thats my little brothers army. To be honest though I have no idea what my father will be bringing as he has every army in massive amounts after closing his old game store so i could face Blood angels or squats or anything in between lol.