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Lets say that the Emperor dies and that the civil war starst between IG vs SM.
Who woud won?
SM are elites but IG is numerless and what about techpriests of mars or Gk

There have been two major civil wars in the history of the IoM already. If IG and SM went at it GK are still astartes would fight with the SM Admech with whoever seems to be winning. The IG have trillions of soldiers and are present on most worlds in the Imperium. Depending on their reasong for fighting each other the SoB might join the SM which would be... interesting. The IG have one thousand soldiers to an astartes, thats a lot of lasguns, and autocannons, and Leman Russes, not to mention Admech titans. IG win, but at enough cost that the IOM experiences a second dark age.

Doesn't the Emperor protect human/SM Psykers (especially the Astropaths who allow for travel through the Warp) from the Warp/Chaos Gods/Deamons? If he dies, wouldn't all trade and travel stop in the Galaxy for the IoM? Wouldn't that be like electric and combustion engines suddenly stop working in our time? I don't think there would be a 'civil war' outside of local systems fighting for control of themselves, MASS starvation (because food from those food bearing planets would not leave), and the advancement of Warp threats. No, I think there would have to be another reason for a 'real' civil war to erupt because the Emperor's died, the IoM would virtually cease to exist. Perhaps a new Psyker of comparable abilities?

IG/IN would win. Space Marines don't have the naval firepower to take on the Imperial Navy, and once on the ground, Space Marine chapters would have to survive the numberless regiments of Imperial Guard and legions of Titans.

generalsava wrote:Lets say that the Emperor dies and that the civil war starst between IG vs SM.

It would never break down that way. Civil wars always break along regional lines, not organizational ones.

You would never have the entire space marines or the entire imperial guard break off one from the other, what you would have is a group of SM and guard against a group of SM and guard. Just like the Horus Heresy. Just like every other imperium's civil wars.


Of course, to answer your question, it would be the guard who would win. 100% of the imperium's planets breaking off, stranding a handful of now-exiled warriors to make it on their own? If this happened, it would be the imperium (in perhaps a slightly new form), against two different types of chaos space marines.

The IG/IN would win in the end, but suffer horrendous losses.

That's like asking who would win if the Tau tried to take on the Necrons single-handedly. There are millions-probably hundreds of millions-of Guardsmen to each Marine. SM simply don't have the numbers to take and hold ground, and that's without going in to what their logistical situation would be.

First off, there are countless billions of guardmen, so says the 5th Edition rulebook. Just ticks me off. Just my opinion.

Anyway, the IG/IN would win obviously. And even if the Emperor dies, travel wouldn't end. The Astronomican makes travel easy, not possible. It would be liike like sailing without a compass. You can still sail, just not as easily.

As for the SM, if they managed to join forces, they'd probably be able to take a few million IG with them beofre they get run over.

I figure the Imperium would just spit up kind of like the way the Roman Empire split into the Eastern and Western halves. There'd be like a state loyal to the Imperial Cult and there'd be a state loyal to Terra. The Nova Terra thing in Ultima Segmentum might get underway again.

As for all the Guard vs all the Space Marines: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlWZZSD4irM&t=1m18s

On the ground it is tough to call, IG are numerous but the Marines are tough. In space it is no contest, the Imperial Navy would crush the Astates fleets.

Titans are not an IG asset, they are an AM asset. To group the two together would be to assume the AM would take a side.

They're already pretty much their own empire allied to the IoM through a treaty. Whats to say they'd not act by themselves, ally to one of the sides or just be neutral and support both.

Likely it also wouldn't be as clear cut as IG vs SM. If there were there would likely be a mix on both sides. Some of the forces likely formed by the high lords trying to claw their way to the top and control the IoM.

If the AM sided with the SM, it would only be a matter of time before the IG ran out of tanks, bullets, and everything else except sticks and rocks with which to attack the SM.

The Navy, too. If the AM decided to join the SM? The Imperial Navy loses its ships. It requires the AM to keep them in space.

I'm assuming we take into account that both sides can actually use FTL travel and communication?
Otherwise no one wins...
If both sides can manoeuvre like normal IG.
IG easily.
There are literally enough soldiers to crush every single SM. And by crush i don't mean defeat thoroughly. I mean literally squash through weight... not weight of numbers. Actual weight. Kilograms and such.

That was would never happened and thinking about it is heresy and stupid.

The answer is obvious, there are around 1.000.000 Space Marines in the galaxy.
Guard number in millions of Regiments all across the galaxy. SoB, AM and IN would surely join the Guard.

Reasons why this would never happened:

-Most marines are to loyal to the Emperor.
-Inquisition watch is more present then ever, every start of rebellion would be noted and put down rather quickly ( Badab War ).
-Marines are symbol of Emperor's protection and might among Guardsman. No loyal Guardsman would ever fire on Astartes and would give his life to help him.

Brother Coa wrote:That was would never happened and thinking about it is heresy and stupid.

The answer is obvious, there are around 1.000.000 Space Marines in the galaxy.
Guard number in millions of Regiments all across the galaxy. SoB, AM and IN would surely join the Guard.

Reasons why this would never happened:

-Most marines are to loyal to the Emperor.
-Inquisition watch is more present then ever, every start of rebellion would be noted and put down rather quickly ( Badab War ).
-Marines are symbol of Emperor's protection and might among Guardsman. No loyal Guardsman would ever fire on Astartes and would give his life to help him.

1) It has happened before. The Horus Heresy being a fairly important section in Imperial history.
Also

Origina Post wrote:Lets say that the Emperor dies

2) Being loyal to the Emperor is fine but after he is dead anything can happen... or nothing depending on how things go...

It would be very unlikely that Adeptus Astartes would turn against their brethren. Especially all 1,000 chapters. Maybe a few but not all of them.
there would be a civil war but not between the Marines and the Guardsmen most likely a split in between everyone.

purplefood wrote:
It has happened before. The Horus Heresy being a fairly important section in Imperial history.

That was Marine vs. Marine in general with Imperial army and other branches having little to no important rule in that war.
And for yet another that kind of civil war you will need a leader ( witch woudl be almost impossible after Vandire ), and a large army ( also almost impossible afte Vandire and Badab ).
And a reason, why would Guard all of a sudden wage war on all Astartes? Why would all Astartes rebel against the Emperor?
When even all of them together and united barley stand their lines against Orks, Eldar, Dark Eldar, NEcrons and Tyranids.

Just silly... why on earth would IG turn on the SM because the Emperor died? Its like saying DC is nuked, so the Navy attacks the Air Force!!! ...silly

After horrendous fighting the Astartes wouldn't be able to take control of Terra or major Imperial worlds, though they do have mini-empires on the fringes, and then you have a CSM/Renegade SM kind of setup of constant skirmishes for millennia.

n0t_u wrote:They're already pretty much their own empire allied to the IoM through a treaty. Whats to say they'd not act by themselves, ally to one of the sides or just be neutral and support both.

Or they could choose not to get involved. When you think about it, neither IG or SM REALLY have the power to force them to choose a side.

If the Emperor died I would assume that the Lords Of Terra would have full command of the Imperium which they had really anyways.

If the Space Marine chapters didnt show allegiance to the Lords Of Terra I reckon they would go to war so the Space Marines couldn't take control of the Imperium.

And lets not forget about Chaos here. I reckon alot of people in the Imperium would fall to Chaos finding out their supposed God Emperor died.

As for who would win hard to say I would suspect Spacemarines would eventually loose but I dont think they'll be wiped out completely.

Yak9UT wrote:If the Emperor died I would assume that the Lords Of Terra would have full command of the Imperium which they had really anyways.

If the Space Marine chapters didnt show allegiance to the Lords Of Terra I reckon they would go to war so the Space Marines couldn't take control of the Imperium.

It's not that easy. For example, there is Ultramar, which is controlled by the Ultramarines, right up to the chapter master being the lord of the system. This includes PDF and several hundred regiments of Imperial Guard founded in the sector. They'd also have close ties to the Imperial Navy and adeptus mechanicus in the area, and be in a good position to discuss separating. This is how allegiances would fall - sectoral, not organisational. Ultramar would be in an incredibly strong position - they'd form the largest 'empire' after those around Terra, and likely a rallying point for other chapters, fleets and regiments who are dissatisfied with Imperial rule.

Seconding (twelthing?) the statments that it wouldn't be IG v SM, it's be a bunch of chapters agains one another, and a ton of imperial worlds forming their own splinter factions.

But to answer SM v IG? Simple. There's roughly one marine for every world in the Imperium. There's tens of thousands of IG for every world in the Imperium. Quantity has a quality all its own.

purplefood wrote:2) Being loyal to the Emperor is fine but after his death is announced and made official anything can happen... or nothing depending on how things go...

Fixed it for you.

For all we know, the Emperor actually died in the Heresy. If he didn't, and he did die in the future, you think that people would just start blabbing, or that the powers that be would announce it?

No, any mention of the emperor's death would be heresy, and assassins would be dispatched to eliminate anybody who might actually know the secret (and start a new crusade/exterminatus-fest anywhere it propogated). If there's one thing the imperium does competently, it's controlling the flow of information. News of the emperor's death would never be allowed to leak.