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I found this linked from TTGN and thought that it should be brought over to Dakka for discussion. I've been curious about the new paints, but not enough to start a new project just to have an excuse to use them, as I already have everything I need for my existing armies. So, after watching this and perhaps using the new GW paints yourself, what do you out in Dakkaland think?

"In my opinion, conversion chart is useless"

Hmmm well this video confirmed my fears.... Well I will try a few paints from the new range before I pass down a judgement. But in all honesty I think I will be looking into Vallejo paints and the Reaper paints that come in a three pack.... I just don't like that they reduced the number of colors and in doing that got rid of some key paints.

Great review, I agree with pretty much everything he said. Just another reason to keep on my trek to replace my GW paints with Vallejo.

Very good video review - I will create my own judgement (of course), but it will keep my expectations to a reasonable level. Sadly my FLGS got only half the colours (they came in two boxes and GW managed to send 2 No2 boxes .... typical), so I will have to wait till Thursday or Friday till I can get at least one sample per category.

If my opinion reflects this review (as I fear it will), the Glazes and washes will be the only thing from the new range I intend to use.
On the other hand, I almost switched completely to Vallejo, due to GWs inferior pot design... so nothing much changes for me

Every store I've been in is unhappy with the new GW paints. They're looking at it from a business standpoint though.

The new rack is going to cost them between 1800 and 2000 for 6pots of each color. The closest store to me isn't exactly large enough to support the full range.

I'm honestly not sure why anyone uses GW paints anymore, have they ever made a change to the citadel line that was beneficial to the customer?

I'll say the same thing I said on warseer; not only is this chap an airbrush painter who's not a fan of GW, he contradicts his own video evidence on two occasions that I noticed(no evident difference in Leadbelcher quality/pigment vs Boltgun, just a slight shift in tone, and claims Base is just like the old regular paints and cover worse than Foundations, then shows Mephiston clearly giving better coverage than Mechrite), and the "only created a new range to force LGS to buy new sets" is tinfoil hat-worthy.

Take with a sack of salt, IMO.

One issue I do have with the video is with the layer paints: The example given is in trying to paint over a black/white background when that is not the intended use for them. They are supposed to be painted over a similar basecoat to add a basic highlight; in this case having heavy coverage is not desireable as you would quite quickly build up a thick layer of paint rather than a nice smooth surface.

J.Black wrote:One issue I do have with the video is with the layer paints: The example given is in trying to paint over a black/white background when that is not the intended use for them. They are supposed to be painted over a similar basecoat to add a basic highlight; in this case having heavy coverage is not desireable as you would quite quickly build up a thick layer of paint rather than a nice smooth surface.

I think the sentiment is that current citadel paints are most similar to base paints in the new range, and so they decreased your options if you wanted to continue painting as you currently do. Layer paints are really a "new" paint in the GW range, and serve to help make blending and highlighting easier. Picking up a layer paint an expecting it to perform as an "old" Citadel paint (which is how GW touts this line) is going to lead to a little disappointment.

Personally I do think the change is positive, particularly for novice painters. It's now very easy to follow painting guides, and with these paints you can get some pretty decent looking results without a lot of effort.

On the other hand, since my shades are going to change anyway, I may as well take this opportunity to find a cheaper alternative. I don't think I'll be the only one with this point of view.

Great video, and it confirmed some of my fears.

I would never classify myself as a GW hater, but I am sorely disappointed in them. Both for replacing a 3 part paint system with a 6 part system, and for getting shot of the core colours.

I was interested in the drybrush paints, but not anymore, that demonstration showed more paint wasted than actually used. I am more than alarmed at his description of the pigments in the new metallics. Also the fact that he states that the range of greys is very limited (3 guesses as to what the main colour for my Marine side is?)

The colour matches from the previous citadel range, along with the coverage is dreadful.

The textured paint? Not even worthy of a comment.

On the plus side, the wash demo seemed ok, and I'll probably give the glazes a go.

Does anyone know of a conversion chart for the old Citadel range and other manufacturers? I don't believe I have a vallejo stockist near me, so trying to get appropriate matches by eye isn't going to be easy, and it'll be potentially too expensive for trial and error.

Really don't understand why everyone complains about the colors not matching up properly. Seriously, why not just make due and have a slightly different tone for the newer part of your army? Is it such a big deal that the models come out slightly different?

The old line had all sorts of paints that were impossible to complement, and would never really have decent highlights without mixing. Blood red, Enchanted blue, Snot Green, liche purple and golden yellow come to mind.

Also, it's important to understand that GW isn't doing this to compete with Vallejo or P3. They aren't idiots. If they wanted to compete, they would offer the exact same thing vallejo does with some sort of gimick thrown in (plus the convenience of buying at a local GW). That's obviously not their intent.

GW realizes that Vallejo and P3 are VERY specialist brands that are, for the majority, not a threat to their business. They know they can't release a product that's superior to those because the audience that buys them has enormous standards, compared to GW's target audience, which has no standards at all.

I understand the frustration that the new paints aren't as good as they could be, but take a look at what you they before the new line. I could go on and on about the problems the old line had, and could probably go on about what problems the new line has, but the fundamental fact is that the new line is indeed superior.

bfdhud wrote:I'm honestly not sure why anyone uses GW paints anymore, have they ever made a change to the citadel line that was beneficial to the customer?

I don't understand all the hatred in this thread. I mean GW does some bad things from time to time but the paints are not one of them. Well, with the exception of discontinuing Devlin Mud. I think some of you guys sit around looking for excuses to spew hatred about GW. Let's face it, hating for the sake of hating is just as annoying as white knighting.

The_Happy_Pig wrote:Great video, and it confirmed some of my fears.

Reading your post shows me that you don't have the slightest clue what you are talking about. The new white paint coats over black a hell of a lot better than the old - night and effing day as it were. Also painting the layers over a zebra-stripe pattern and bitching about coverage is really useless. You can get worse coverage this way with Testors which are some of the best in the industry (imo, anyway).

Bitching about textured paint? Seriously? Are you unaware that art supply stores sell textured medium which is basically what GW's stuff is? Just because you don't see a use for textures doesn't mean isn't one. Yes, textured medium from Golden is cheaper (so is dumping sand into your paint) but some people can't be bothered to go look for the stuff. GW trades off convenience and the expectation that customers are generally lazy. For the most part, their customers don't disappoint.

GW has dramatically increased the color range and each color now has more options for shading and highlighting. Are there better options? Maybe. Is everything as bad as the video review seems to indicate? Hardly. So, how about instead of watching a video and saying garbage like, "OMG! Mah feerz are the confurmed." go and check the new stuff out for yourself and compare with the stuff you currently use.

All I inferred from this video is that this guy is getting a check cut straight from Vallejo. Also not knowing how to use the paints kinda invalidates him in my eyes.

Breotan wrote:

The_Happy_Pig wrote:Great video, and it confirmed some of my fears.

Reading your post shows me that you don't have the slightest clue what you are talking about. The new white paint coats over black a hell of a lot better than the old - night and effing day as it were. Also painting the layers over a zebra-stripe pattern and bitching about coverage is really useless. You can get worse coverage this way with Testors which are some of the best in the industry (imo, anyway).

Bitching about textured paint? Seriously? Are you unaware that art supply stores sell textured medium which is basically what GW's stuff is? Just because you don't see a use for textures doesn't mean isn't one. Yes, textured medium from Golden is cheaper (so is dumping sand into your paint) but some people can't be bothered to go look for the stuff. GW trades off convenience and the expectation that customers are generally lazy. For the most part, their customers don't disappoint.

GW has dramatically increased the color range and each color has better options for shading and highlighting. Are there better options? Maybe. Is everything as bad as the video review seems to indicate? Hardly. So, how about instead of watching a video and saying garbage like, "OMG! Mah feerz are the confurmed." go and check the new stuff out for yourself and compare with the stuff you currently use.

To address your points.

The card he was painting over is called an opacity test, this is a standard test used by paint companies to determine flow and coverage of pigmentation - not really useless as it is a practical demonstration of some of the qualities of the paint in question. As I used to work for a paint company, I do have some idea what I'm talking about.

You are right though, my harsh criticism of the opacity of the white paint as demonstrated in the video is clearly...

No hang on. Wait a minute. I didn't mention anything about the white paint. I know I didn't because I checked my post. Twice. It wasn't demonstrated at all in the video, and neither was it commented on by me.

As you are keen to note my bitching about the textured paint. Oh wait again. Hang on.

Just reading my post again, you'll notice that I didn't bitch, I noted that it wasn't worthy of comment. Perhaps because the video clearly states that larger pots of the same stuff is available at much better value for money, and I didn't want to retread the ground already covered. I suppose I could have mentioned the three large pots of textured paint on my desk in front of me that I picked up from a nearby railway modeling shop at a fraction of the price of GW's offerings. But I felt I didn't need to as the economy of scale has already been covered in the video. the comment I made about not seeing a use for it... Hang on, just checking my other post. No, that comment isn't there either. I don't see any inference on my part either. I believe I merely said that it wasn't worthy of comment.

How you managed to get so much subtext from that sentence is a complete marvel.

Such as my spewing hatred for GW. As you have already demonstrated how well you read my post, the qualifier that A) I don't consider myself a GW hater and B) I am sorely disappointed in them obviously shows that I am, as you put it, hating for the sake of hating. Oh wait, hang on again. I'm sure I expressed my disappointment at them for replacing a 3 part system with a 6 part system (a point you seem to be more than happy to ignore) and for getting shot of the core colours. My disappointment lies with the discontinued lines and the dreadful colour matching they have done. This disappointment appears to be quite widespread amongst this online community.

So in response to my post you have given me two clear examples of something I made no mention of:

That the white paint appears to cover particularly well

that GW makes a conveniently expensive textured paint for lazy people (Although to be fair I can't tell if you are being positive or negative on this point)

Then you appear to be saying that this is enough evidence to prove that everything is hardly as bad as the video review seems to indicate. Your comprehension skills are further cemented by the fact that you ignore my positive note on the washes and glazes, and my comment that I will be trying these. Obviously (In your world) this can easily be construed as me piling GW hatred on top of GW hatred of their new lines, from your rather puerile (and rather misquoted) comment that me that some of my fears have been confirmed (but I can see how you would have difficulty distinguishing the word 'some' with 'OMG! Mah feerz are the confurmed' but I get the two mixed up as well ).

So, to sum up: You completely rail on me with unmitigated vitriol about how much of a hater I am without actually reading what I have written. You then go on to say that I don't know what I'm talking about when clearly it's not me having the issues with comprehension.

'Hello, is that the kettle? I have a message for you from the pot'

While I agree with some points, I disagree with a few other.

1) Dry paints are usefull, especially if you are big into terrain making that often needs a lot of drybrushing. Just don't overload the brush before you wipe it off, it's really not that hard to work with...

2) If layerpaints are completely useless because they are more diluted, then the same can be said about model air range from vallejo. It's not a completely useless line, it's good for beginners who haven't quite mastered the art that is diluting yet...

Im a bit bored of this argument because no matter the out come of the debate for paint the out come will never differ, GW has discarded its old stock for new its not bringing it back and its not going to change.

its either adjust and enjoy the hobby like we are supposed too or leave and find something else to do because complaining gets you nowhere...

Personally i plan on adjusting I've been painting for 11 years with GW brand stuff and they changed a few names and formulas... so what? in the end you get the same result

Wolf Kharok wrote:Im a bit bored of this argument because no matter the out come of the debate for paint the out come will never differ, GW has discarded its old stock for new its not bringing it back and its not going to change.

its either adjust and enjoy the hobby like we are supposed too or leave and find something else to do because complaining gets you nowhere...

Personally i plan on adjusting I've been painting for 11 years with GW brand stuff and they changed a few names and formulas... so what? in the end you get the same result

I think I'm with this guy now. I tried the new paints. I like the new paints. I don't personally like other companies stuff. And I see no reason to share an opinion as to why, because it will just start a fight. People like what they like.

Samus_aran115 wrote:Really don't understand why everyone complains about the colors not matching up properly. Seriously, why not just make due and have a slightly different tone for the newer part of your army? Is it such a big deal that the models come out slightly different?

I'm more disappointed in their GW conversion chart. Just because there is new red foundation does mean it is equivalent to the old red base. Just tell me Mephiston Red is closer to Blood Red, not Mechrite.

Elmir wrote:While I agree with some points, I disagree with a few other.

1) Dry paints are usefull, especially if you are big into terrain making that often needs a lot of drybrushing. Just don't overload the brush before you wipe it off, it's really not that hard to work with...

2) If layerpaints are completely useless because they are more diluted, then the same can be said about model air range from vallejo. It's not a completely useless line, it's good for beginners who haven't quite mastered the art that is diluting yet...

Vallejo also has 3 different lines of paints. I wouldn't consider the model air range usefulness to the new layers, but I get the point you are trying to make. Using your analogy, if the new GW layers are good for beginners...what are the people who know how to dilute their paint supposed to do? Let it sit out to thicken up?

Samus_aran115 wrote:
Vallejo also has 3 different lines of paints. I wouldn't consider the model air range usefulness to the new layers, but I get the point you are trying to make. Using your analogy, if the new GW layers are good for beginners...what are the people who know how to dilute their paint supposed to do? Let it sit out to thicken up?

Ofcourse not... My favorite range, outside of vallejo air for convenience in my airbrush, is vallejo model colour. Using that stuff straight out of the bottle would just murder the detail on your model... You have to dilute it to get some smooth layers BUT for all the extra "effort" to do that, one of those pots lasts forever.

Also, I'm not saying these paints are only for novice painters, that's definatly not the case. I'm just trying to say that there is no reason to throw your own paints in the bin or rush out the door to get these if you are a bit more experienced in painting (as in, if you know a paint for layering should be more transparent and more diluted, paint for drybrushing should be left to set a bit if it's too thin out of the pot and so on). For new painters, I would recommend these paints however, simply because the division in categories makes it very easy to get started.

Elmir wrote:

Samus_aran115 wrote:
Vallejo also has 3 different lines of paints. I wouldn't consider the model air range usefulness to the new layers, but I get the point you are trying to make. Using your analogy, if the new GW layers are good for beginners...what are the people who know how to dilute their paint supposed to do? Let it sit out to thicken up?

Ofcourse not... My favorite range, outside of vallejo air for convenience in my airbrush, is vallejo model colour. Using that stuff straight out of the bottle would just murder the detail on your model... You have to dilute it to get some smooth layers BUT for all the extra "effort" to do that, one of those pots lasts forever.

Also, I'm not saying these paints are only for novice painters, that's definatly not the case. I'm just trying to say that there is no reason to throw your own paints in the bin or rush out the door to get these if you are a bit more experienced in painting (as in, if you know a paint for layering should be more transparent and more diluted, paint for drybrushing should be left to set a bit if it's too thin out of the pot and so on). For new painters, I would recommend these paints however, simply because the division in categories makes it very easy to get started.

Agree on this. My apologies if I may have taken your disagreeing opinions a little out of line. You were just pointing out the differences in your opinion against the BuyPainted vid. Cheers