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yesterday i played an apoc game at my local store and a guy was playing grey knights vs some guys with 3 of the 4 Forge World Greater daemons. he tore them apart by dropping them to i2 with his grenades then using daemonbane, the ofcourse failed their LD test and where removed from play. what i want to know is if daemonbane actually works against the daemon lords as their unit type is gargantuan creature, not daemon and none of them have the special rule "Daemon". what do you guys think? i just think its slightly OP that a single grey knight can 1 shot a 999pt model.

If Daemonbane works only on unit type Daemon, and they are not unit type Daemon, then it wont work.

Unfortunately i have not seen the rules for Daemonbane, so cant help in that respect.

it states that "Any Daemon or Psker that suffers one or more unsaved wounds from Nemesis force weapons must take a leadershit test at the end of the assult phase. if the test is passed, nothing happens. if the test is failed the model is removed as a casualty"

Right, so if the Gargantuans are not classed as Daemons, and do not have Pysker powers, then they would not be affected.

thats where im comfused, they are KNOW as "Daemon Lords", but their unit type is gargantuan creatures, and dont have the Daemon special rule.

Aren't mandrakes counted as daemons for the GK codex? and the Avatar? Although neither of them have the daemon special rule? I think you can apply this to daemon lords as well. Personally.

Heres the faq I was thinking of

Q: What counts as a Daemon? (p21)
A: Everything in the Chaos Daemons codex, Daemon
Princes, Possessed Chaos Space Marines, Obliterators,
summoned greater Daemons, summoned lesser
Daemons, any vehicle with the daemonic possesion
upgrade, Daemonhosts, Mandrakes, Kheradruakh the
Decapitator, the Avatar.

Cyanide wrote:thats where im comfused, they are KNOW as "Daemon Lords", but their unit type is gargantuan creatures, and dont have the Daemon special rule.

There is no chance they are NOT considered daemons. None. GW has made it clear that if they look like a daemon, they are a daemon.

Also, I1 if they assault you. They shouldnt really be assaulting you with a lot of the daemons, wings are a good thing....

Yes, if you take a wound and survive until the end of the assault phase, you take a LD test on your base Ld, and if you fail you are dead. Oddly enough GK are pretty good at killing daemons.

nosferatu1001 wrote:GW has made it clear that if they look like a daemon, they are a daemon.

where has this been made clear? the only clarification of that a daemon is is in the list that was just posted, and they forge world greater daemons dont fit into that list.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that Gargantuan Creatures were immune to "removed as a casualty" and like effects?

Iranna.

Iranna wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that Gargantuan Creatures were immune to "removed as a casualty" and like effects?

Iranna.

no, due to outdated rulebooks being used with 6th ed`esk codex`s gargantuan s are only immune to instant death and not removed from play

The answer to this question is under the rules for gargantuan creatures. The APOC book states that if a Gargantuan creature suffers a wound that would remove it from play or kill it outright then it suffers D3 wounds instead. The daemonlords cannot be killed outright. The APOC book was written when the old Daemon hunters codex was around, and NFW removed models from play, so I am almost positive this rule was written with this in mind.

ive just had a quick read through the apoc rule book and have come to a conclusion. The Daemon lords cannot be affected by daemonbane. it clearly states that not only are Gargantuan creatures immune to instant death, but also "any attack that would normally kill a model automatically (like a force weapon, an attack that kills as a RESULT OF A FAILED CHARACTERISTIC TEST, etc.) Suck attacks cause D3 wounds instead".

Cyanide wrote:ive just had a quick read through the apoc rule book and have come to a conclusion. The Daemon lords cannot be affected by daemonbane. it clearly states that not only are Gargantuan creatures immune to instant death, but also "any attack that would normally kill a model automatically (like a force weapon, an attack that kills as a RESULT OF A FAILED CHARACTERISTIC TEST, etc.) Suck attacks cause D3 wounds instead".

Yeah. It would be kind of silly to be able to kill one of those things with 1 attack.

It's one of those things for apocalypse that you need to agree on house rules for beforehand, like deathmarks and gargantuan creatures or mind in the machine and a Titan, or Imotekh(the rule works but it's been made clear by local players that I shouldn't do it), or Orikan + WW C'Tan (the rule works but it's been made clear by local players that they will come over the table especially the Chaos Daemons player).


Long story short apocolypse requires a lot of house ruling to make it work properly and there are things you should definitely discuss before the game.